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Author Topic:   to Christians in this forum...
nator
Member (Idle past 2170 days)
Posts: 12961
From: Ann Arbor
Joined: 12-09-2001


Message 181 of 197 (101389)
04-20-2004 11:17 PM
Reply to: Message 172 by pinky
04-20-2004 5:34 PM


quote:
Do you really believe that the Bushies are trying to make the world a safer place, especially for Americans? Hardly! They are justifying your destruction and submission to a global governing body, all according to plan.
Um, Bush has succeeded in pissing off most of our European allies, and has REALLY pissed off a LOT of people in the Arab/Muslim world. Let's not forget that he insulted the heck out of the North Koreans, too.
How can he be "preparing" us for a "global government" if he is pissing everyone off so bad?
Oh, and how on earth can you say that there is anything even remotely close to a single world religion? there are, literally, thousands of sects of Christianity alone, and many hundreds of other religions worldwide.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 172 by pinky, posted 04-20-2004 5:34 PM pinky has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 185 by pinky, posted 04-21-2004 1:01 PM nator has not replied

nator
Member (Idle past 2170 days)
Posts: 12961
From: Ann Arbor
Joined: 12-09-2001


Message 182 of 197 (101393)
04-20-2004 11:31 PM
Reply to: Message 175 by Jackal25
04-20-2004 5:54 PM


quote:
Pinky I hope you really dont think that the American patriots blood was spilled in vain.
I think she's right about that one thing. A LOT of people died, on both sides, for no good reason at all.
quote:
Not to get to far of topic here but I feel with Saddam out of power I am safer and Im sure a lot of other people do to, and that couldnt have happend without Americans.
Saddam was asolutely no threat at all to us. He was a mostly declawed dictator who couldn't even control all of his own country (the Kurds had been out of his control for years). He most likely didn't have any WMD.
You may feel safer now, but you aren't.
In fact, you are much less safe now than before we invaded Iraq.
There was very little terrorist of Al Qaida activity in Iraq before the invasion, but there is plenty now. There wasn't much extremist Islamic activity in Iraq before the invasion, but there is now.
Remember, it was Bin Ladin, not Hussein, that attacked us, but instead of finishing the job in Afghanistan, Bush lied to the American public about WMD in Iraq, didn't have a plan for getting out of Iraq when he invaded, and he's doing a terrible job of things over there now, as evidenced by our soldiers haveing to recently retake the major cities.
quote:
Easy on the Bush comments I think he is doing as good as a job as he can with the information he receives.
I agree that he's doing "as good a job as he can".
It's just that the job he is doing is deplorably inadequate.
[This message has been edited by schrafinator, 04-20-2004]

This message is a reply to:
 Message 175 by Jackal25, posted 04-20-2004 5:54 PM Jackal25 has not replied

PrewashedAnt
Inactive Member


Message 183 of 197 (101399)
04-20-2004 11:57 PM


"My question to fellow believers in this forum is this; Why do you debate and try to prove G-d with worldly knowledge, i.e. science? I do not mean for that to sound condescending but ask in sincerity. I am just curious if some percieve this as a type of witnessing, with the hope that you will spark some faith in some of the non-believers here? I can understand if this is the case, because I understand that once we recieve the knowledge of Christ it is our hearts desire for others to also share in the joy of knowing Him and recieve salvation."
I am also a believer. I am not here to argue, but to help and hopefully have some kind of influence. I don't know about you but I would love to see each and every one of these people with me in Heaven. Therefore I pray for all of them every day.

Replies to this message:
 Message 187 by pinky, posted 04-21-2004 2:23 PM PrewashedAnt has not replied
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1.61803
Member (Idle past 1504 days)
Posts: 2928
From: Lone Star State USA
Joined: 02-19-2004


Message 184 of 197 (101425)
04-21-2004 1:55 AM
Reply to: Message 172 by pinky
04-20-2004 5:34 PM


pinky writes:
ALL the biblical prophecies in the 'end times' to be fulfilled
Sorry pinky that does not wash, every single 'end times' predictor thought the same damn thing. And Nothing Happend.
I live and work near Ft Hood Texas Home of the 4th Infantry Div.
I am a veteran and am very proud of this country and its military. No blood from our soil was ever spilled in vain if the cause was not just the spirit and principals these men and women die for on a daily bases mean something. I am not just talking about IRAQ, but all Wars were Americans fought and died.
You living in Canada must be above it all no pun intended. I realize this is a international forum and that alot of people do not support my country but I hope while you are sitting in your cozy home typing a thought may go out to some of those who are in harms way. OK I am off my soap box, now back to your regularly scheduled debate. Peace.
[This message has been edited by 1.61803, 04-21-2004]

"One is punished most for ones virtues" Fredrick Neitzche

This message is a reply to:
 Message 172 by pinky, posted 04-20-2004 5:34 PM pinky has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 186 by pinky, posted 04-21-2004 1:58 PM 1.61803 has replied

pinky
Inactive Member


Message 185 of 197 (101565)
04-21-2004 1:01 PM
Reply to: Message 181 by nator
04-20-2004 11:17 PM


Schrafinator
I first want to say thank you for accepting my apology and thanks for your empathy for me being a stay at home mom . Very much appreciated.
I am also happy that if nothing else we can at least agree on the horrible job Bush is doing. However he is just a puppet playing the role that his handlers have scripted for him.
In response to
How can he be "preparing" us for a "global government" if he is pissing everyone off so bad?
To the rest of the world America has been taken over by a religious zealot who has engaged in war under false pretenses to ultimately prop up the economic interests of his own family and corporate cronies. If this ends up starting WW III, which I suspect it will, then this will justify a need to eliminate national soveriegnty. The global mantra will be along the lines of 'Nations cannot be trusted to govern themselves', after all, if America, the greatest democracy in history can succumb to the tyranny of a leader who unjustifiably declares a unilateral call to arms against other nations for their own greedy self interest, then this can happen to any nation. Therefore the only solution will be to surrender all arms and soveriegnty to a global governing body that is not partial to any nation and only has world peace in their interest. This is the result of the HEGELIAN DIALECT. The atrocities that Zionist Israel is commiting right now will also play into this.
Also because Bush 'claims' to be a Christian acting in favor of 'his' god and Sharon 'claims' to be a devout Jew acting in favor of 'his' god, this will eventually create a 'need' to do away with the tenets of the Judeo-Christian faith for the sake of world peace. This will eventually lead to the persecution of orthadox Jews and Christians (as foretold in scripture) because they will be percieved as a cancer that needs to be eradicated to establish an era of peace.
The Bushie neo-cons are not really Christian and Zionism is counterfiet Judaism. On the surface the Bush administration and Zionist Israel appear to be in complete opposition with the UN and it's policies. However all three are in fact subsidaries of the Rockefller, Rothschild (et al) empire. This is essentially good cop-bad cop being played out on a global scale, designed to herd the sheeple into the cliche 'New World Order'.
As far as the one world religion here are a couple of google search links. I will let you pick and choose from the articles if you are in fact interested, hoping this way you won't think I am showing any bias:
http://www.google.ca/...#1
http://www.google.ca/...#2
{Shortened display form of URL, to restore page width to normal - Adminnemooseus}
Obviously there is alot of conflict in the world based on religious views, but when it comes to full out war, we need to see who has the power to actually declare war. Is it really the common people who hold these religious views, or is it the poitical leaders who are merely POSERS of these faiths, using a religious platform to foment their political agenda? More Hegelian Dialect.
[This message has been edited by Adminnemooseus, 04-21-2004]

This message is a reply to:
 Message 181 by nator, posted 04-20-2004 11:17 PM nator has not replied

pinky
Inactive Member


Message 186 of 197 (101575)
04-21-2004 1:58 PM
Reply to: Message 184 by 1.61803
04-21-2004 1:55 AM


First of all, the Bible tells us that before the return of Christ Israel will again become a nation, in fact the generation that sees Israel become a nation will not pass away before the return of Christ. Given that Israel officially became a state in 1948, this would automatically rule out any previous belief of an end time scenario, and put our generation into this time frame.
Also in regard to the mark of the beast:
Revelation 13
16 And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to recieve a mark IN their right hand, or IN their foreheads:
17 And no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.
At what other time in history have we had the capability or technology to use a 'mark' to monitor financial transactions?
I'm sure you have heard of the implantable microchips that are slowly starting to make their way in to mainstream. Of course they are introduced under the pretext of convenience and security. Some time ago I read a patent for one particular chip that described the most effective place to implant would be in the back of the right hand or in the hairline. I tried to find the patent to post it here but have been unable to find it. I'll see if I can't dig it up over the next few days.
Here's a recent article about the 'convenience' of these chips:
Paying for drinks with wave
of the hand
Club-goers in Spain get implanted chips for ID, payment purposes
"The objective of this technology is to bring an ID system to a global level that will destroy the need to carry ID documents and credit cards," Chase said.
Page not found - WND
My husband is also retired military and did many tours, one of them being the first gulf war. I don't mean to belittle our soldiers in any way. It just makes me all the more angry to see their lives being sacrificed for what I believe to be nefarious motives on behalf of their own governments. I support the soldiers and the American people in general, I don't think that the Bushies truly represent the ideals of most Americans. I just wish more would pay closer attention to what is really going on and stop letting the corporate media shape their views.
Peace to you also 1.61803

This message is a reply to:
 Message 184 by 1.61803, posted 04-21-2004 1:55 AM 1.61803 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 188 by NosyNed, posted 04-21-2004 2:28 PM pinky has not replied
 Message 190 by PaulK, posted 04-21-2004 2:41 PM pinky has not replied
 Message 191 by 1.61803, posted 04-21-2004 3:15 PM pinky has not replied

pinky
Inactive Member


Message 187 of 197 (101578)
04-21-2004 2:23 PM
Reply to: Message 183 by PrewashedAnt
04-20-2004 11:57 PM


I don't know about you but I would love to see each and every one of these people with me in Heaven. Therefore I pray for all of them every day.
AMEN!!!!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 183 by PrewashedAnt, posted 04-20-2004 11:57 PM PrewashedAnt has not replied

NosyNed
Member
Posts: 8996
From: Canada
Joined: 04-04-2003


Message 188 of 197 (101579)
04-21-2004 2:28 PM
Reply to: Message 186 by pinky
04-21-2004 1:58 PM


Finally, something concrete!
First of all, the Bible tells us that before the return of Christ Israel will again become a nation, in fact the generation that sees Israel become a nation will not pass away before the return of Christ. Given that Israel officially became a state in 1948, this would automatically rule out any previous belief of an end time scenario, and put our generation into this time frame.
So we are now nearly 60 years from the establishment of Isreal. What does "not pass away" mean. Do we have to wait for the last person born in or after 1948 to die before we can mark your prophesy as wrong? Of will three score and ten do it? We are either 10 or about 60 years away from the return of Christ then, right?
What if in the next few decades we dramtically extend human life? Does that mean we, mere humans, can put off the return of Christ? Wow! Pretty impressive!
I guess I'm nosy about just what this does mean?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 186 by pinky, posted 04-21-2004 1:58 PM pinky has not replied

coffee_addict
Member (Idle past 477 days)
Posts: 3645
From: Indianapolis, IN
Joined: 03-29-2004


Message 189 of 197 (101580)
04-21-2004 2:33 PM
Reply to: Message 183 by PrewashedAnt
04-20-2004 11:57 PM


PrewashedAnt writes:
I don't know about you but I would love to see each and every one of these people with me in Heaven. Therefore I pray for all of them every day.
That's ok. I'd rather be nothing than serve in heaven. Sounds too boring to me.

The Laminator

This message is a reply to:
 Message 183 by PrewashedAnt, posted 04-20-2004 11:57 PM PrewashedAnt has not replied

PaulK
Member
Posts: 17822
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 2.2


Message 190 of 197 (101581)
04-21-2004 2:41 PM
Reply to: Message 186 by pinky
04-21-2004 1:58 PM


Revelation 13
16 And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to recieve a mark IN their right hand, or IN their foreheads: 17 And no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.
At what other time in history have we had the capability or technology to use a 'mark' to monitor financial transactions?
To start with the majority of Bible translations do not use "in" - they use "on" or an equivalent wording (I checked 16 on biblegateway.com - excluding the NIV-UK as being redundant and getting no result for NLV - only 3 used "in")
As for the technology required we need:
1) The ability to make a permanent mark on human skin. Tatooing and brands have been around for a long time. Since the mark is described as being a representation of the "Beast"'s name or number this is clearly adequate.
2) Money. That was also well-established even by the time of writing.
3) The ability to make and enforce laws.
All of thse are well within Roman capabilities.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 186 by pinky, posted 04-21-2004 1:58 PM pinky has not replied

1.61803
Member (Idle past 1504 days)
Posts: 2928
From: Lone Star State USA
Joined: 02-19-2004


Message 191 of 197 (101584)
04-21-2004 3:15 PM
Reply to: Message 186 by pinky
04-21-2004 1:58 PM


Re: the end is at hand!!!!
Pinky writes:
And no man might buy or sell, save that he had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.
The text goes on to say the let he who has wisdom take heed the number of the beast is 666. Theologians now have discovered that the prophet John was probably refering to Nero Caesar a known enemy of the early christians. It is also interesting to note that the book of revelations was almost dropped from the cannon. The book was written at a time that christianity was still a faction of Judiasm and was probably written to futher distance early christians from orthodox Jews as well as to scare christians to remain in the fold. It was written at a dark time in Christian history the Romans had demolished the Jewish temples and were cruxifying so many people they ran out of lumber. The superstitious take this book literal Pinky, I am not superstitious. I can tell you that Nostradamus had some far out prophesy as well do you think them any more crediable than Revelations? John Smith said angels visited and showed him the Golden Plates from which he contrived the book of Mormon. Do you believe this as well? What makes your mythology any more believable than other cultures and religions mythology? Did Jesus himself prophesize the end of the world and the kingdom of heaven to be fulfilled within the apostles lifetime? I understand you believe the literal bible, just remember that it is nothing more than mythology to many and many do not believe it to have any more credence than any other dooms day rhetoric.
As a Christian I supose you must believe Christ is returning. No problem, the only reason I responded to your earlier post was because your claims of America's demise and the ridiculous claims of Armagedon. Go ahead and preach dooms day if you if it makes you feel good. Just remember it has been preached for Centuries and will probably continue to be preached for as long as Christians view themselves as the only ones worthy to be taken by rapture. Another arrogant premise IMO. Peace be with you. *edit typo
[This message has been edited by 1.61803, 04-21-2004]

"One is punished most for ones virtues" Fredrick Neitzche

This message is a reply to:
 Message 186 by pinky, posted 04-21-2004 1:58 PM pinky has not replied

1.61803
Member (Idle past 1504 days)
Posts: 2928
From: Lone Star State USA
Joined: 02-19-2004


Message 192 of 197 (101606)
04-21-2004 4:43 PM
Reply to: Message 172 by pinky
04-20-2004 5:34 PM


Pinky the political science expert
Pinky the political science expert/stay at home mom writes:
America must be brought into submission. What do you think this 'war on terra' is really about?
Please astound me with your knowlege on the subject and share with us all what it is about.
Pinky writes:
They are justifying your destruction and submission to a global governing body, all according to plan
Evidence please site references of this plan or retract this statement.
pinky writes:
Do you have any idea how the bushies have completley shredded the contstitution and destroyed your civil liberties via the Patriot Act?
Please expound on what civil liberties are destroyed.
pinky writes:
Because they know America is a sinking ship! Dont believe me just wait and see
America has the strongest economy/ military/and one of the highest standards of living in the world. I do not believe this country is a sinking ship because YOU think so. America is the only country I know of that is willing to actually DO something rather than debate and BS about it. No country is safe from terrorism and no country is without its problems but to hear you talk Pinky it sound like you have been fairly indoctrinated into some Anti-America propaganda of your own. All I can say is It is great to be an American waiving my made in China flag. Which flag do you wave?*edit typo
[This message has been edited by 1.61803, 04-21-2004]

"One is punished most for ones virtues" Fredrick Neitzche

This message is a reply to:
 Message 172 by pinky, posted 04-20-2004 5:34 PM pinky has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 193 by Jackal25, posted 04-21-2004 6:22 PM 1.61803 has not replied

Jackal25
Inactive Member


Message 193 of 197 (101642)
04-21-2004 6:22 PM
Reply to: Message 192 by 1.61803
04-21-2004 4:43 PM


Re: Pinky the political science expert
1.61803 writes:
America is the only country I know of that is willing to actually DO something rather than debate and BS about it.
I couldnt agree more. For people who say "Oh, you are just going to make the terrorist mad for trying to capture them". Listen terrorist are mad at us already. Trying to actually get them isnt going to make them attack us more than they already have in the past. I would like to mention they havnt attacked the states since 9-11 but nobody likes to talk about that. Sometimes you need to lead and not follow.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 192 by 1.61803, posted 04-21-2004 4:43 PM 1.61803 has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 194 by nator, posted 04-21-2004 9:32 PM Jackal25 has replied

nator
Member (Idle past 2170 days)
Posts: 12961
From: Ann Arbor
Joined: 12-09-2001


Message 194 of 197 (101699)
04-21-2004 9:32 PM
Reply to: Message 193 by Jackal25
04-21-2004 6:22 PM


Re: Pinky the political science expert
quote:
I would like to mention they havnt attacked the states since 9-11 but nobody likes to talk about that.
Didn't you read what I wrote to you?
There is MORE Islamic anti-American extremism in Iraq than before we invaded.
There is MORE Al-Qaida activity in Iraq than before we invaded.
Because Wolfowitz, Cheney, Ashcroft, Rumsfeld, and Bush dedcided to invade Iraq (and lied to us about WMD so we'd go along with it) before we finished the job in Afghanistan, that country is descending into civil war, because the warlords are increasing their control of the countryside.
There is also increased Al-Qaida activity in Saudi Arabia where there wasn't before we invaded Iraq.
We had the world's support after 9-11 and Bush et. al. has squandered all of it in this insane revenge against Saddam Hussein.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 193 by Jackal25, posted 04-21-2004 6:22 PM Jackal25 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 195 by Jackal25, posted 04-22-2004 12:38 AM nator has not replied

Jackal25
Inactive Member


Message 195 of 197 (101735)
04-22-2004 12:38 AM
Reply to: Message 194 by nator
04-21-2004 9:32 PM


Re: Pinky the political science expert
Did you not read what I wrote? I dont recall saying anything about how much activity is going on in Iraq, I said that the US hasnt been attacked since then. Im well aware of what is going on in Iraq as you are. The WMD thing is a tricky one. We still dont know the whole story so I dont think you or I can comment on that situation. You can say they made it up, but for all we know they are still there or have been taken out of the country. Of course you are going to say they made it up because you think this war is for revenge, where I feel this is going to be good for Iraq in the long run. Nobody expected this was going to be a smooth transfer from Saddam to Democracy.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 194 by nator, posted 04-21-2004 9:32 PM nator has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 196 by crashfrog, posted 04-22-2004 1:34 AM Jackal25 has not replied

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