What happens after death for an atheist?

This thread seems to have lost track of the topic.If it can't find it's way back it'll have to be closed for a rest.AdminJar has already warned about this.Thanks for showing some discipline.

I'm going to propose a new thread where we can discuss evolution as it was mentioned earlier in the thread. Other people might want to make their own threads to discuss the other topics mentioned.

I thought time was the glue that holds the 3 demensions together. Without time you would be able to see from the begining to the end. You could see all sides of a 3 demensional object.The bible says that for God, one day is like a thousand years, an indication that he exists in an arena without time.I believe our minds exist in a place where there is no time. That is why we have visions of the past, and visions of the future.

riVeRratTime and space are linked together to form spacetime.When we make a measurement within spacetime it is defined by four coordinates,three for each of the space dimensions and one for time.This measurement is termed an event.Without time events cannot occur. We experience the passage of time in a very real sense by the meaurement of spacetime.Time allows the dimensions the ability to perform movement and space allows time a path by which to proceed.Without all four dimensions we cannot properly descibe occurences within our world.Space and time are inseperable aspects of the world.If you wish to understand in greater detail the workings of spacetime you need to learn about special and general relativity and the mathematics descibibg these.

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Doubt is not a pleasant condition, but certainty is absurd.

Distance and time are the same thing, that was my understanding. That is based on the speed of light, which may or may not be the speed limit of the universe.It is also relative to you. Going into another demension where time does not exist, does not mean that events will stop happening. We may be able to see all events at the same time. It would be like looking out of a box, and then seeing the other side.

riVeRrat First off,what other dimension where time is not present are you referring to?

I guess I am not clear on that. Would it be the 5th demension, or the fourth.I am not an expert on the definitions of demensions. I once read that the 4th demension had no time, so I assumed, my fault. I also read there could be no limit to the demensions, just that we can not comprehend it.This is all theoretical anyway.

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(quote)While we both may agree that the theist is using a method by which the probability of being right is vanishingly low(/quote)
Really? Is that so?--------------------------------------------------------------------------------Yes, because 'faith' is also known as 'guessing', and guessing don't work too good.
______________________________________________________________________You need to erase the idea that man is "guessing" about what is beyond this life. This is a view that shows little scientific reasoning. You are on the outside looking in, and because you are ignorant and unwilling to look for answers, you won't even try looking at things from the inside. You have the idea branded into your brain that evolution MUST be true, and anyone who even scientifically questions it MUST be crazy. You can keep that idealism if you want, but until you actually LOOK for answers instead of choosing them, most of what you say will be scientifically biased and unacceptable.quote:
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Evolution is in control of nothing. It's a theory.
However, rational human beings are, for the most part, in control of schools. (I'll withold judgment on government, and society controls itself.) You seem to take issue with this, and seem to want equal time for the whackos.
______________________________________________________________________You sure you want to publisize that statement? Kids in schools are taught evolution as an unquestionable fact, and that is due to un-rationable people who simply don't like religion. Did you know that Darwin was religious? Did you know that he was agianst the removal of God from schools? People who control school curriculum don't neccesarily believe or what to believe in evolution. Many just are against kids learning about a God. The society statement is incorrect. Society does not control itself. Certain individuals control society. Don't misjudge me, I'm not a conspiracy guy or anything, but most people care about what's on TV tonight more than what is being printed in textbooks and being written by scientists.quote:
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Anyway, the evidence supporting evolution is readily available. I suggest you take a look at it, instead of getting your information from Fundies who are trying to buy their way into heaven by getting converts.
______________________________________________________________________Once again you clearly portray your biased views of good, whole-hearted people who believe in different things than you do. I have read many texts about the ToE and unlike you, have studied in depth the arguments against the theory.quote:
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You're speculating as to the motives of this hypothetical being-in-hiding. You've also just implied that it's not omniscient, as an omniscient being wouldn't need to wait to know anything.
______________________________________________________________________Did you ever see that movie, Minority Report? When they punished the criminals for crimes they hadn't committed, becuase they knew the criminals were gonna do it soon anyway? Did you ever see that one? Did it seem at all wrong to you when you watched it that these people had not yet done what they were being punished for? Hmmm? If not, your probably a lawyer or an executive producer, but if you did, then would it seem right for God to send you to Hell without giving you a chance to prove yourself? No. The action, and then the reaction.
And no speculation required, this is LDS church doctrine.quote:
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Stop looking at Darwin and start looking at the ground you stand on. (;
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------I have. All I see are natural processes, plus the deficiencies in your reasoning.
______________________________________________________________________And all I see is a biased person who looks at everything through his own broken telescope instead of using anybody elses's. );

Is wandering off topic such a bad thing? I mean everything in this big planet is somehow connected, so isn't it likely that it's always going to happen one way or another? I mean unless it is eating up memory somehow, it's kind of interesting to watch where discussions can go!It's all up to you dude! (;

Yes wandering of topic is a bad thing. It is useful for those who want to follow particular threads and not others to have them catagorized to some degree.It also put some discipline on the posters so that they don't insert their own little pet ideas into all the theads.It also helps stop some people from diverting attention from the fact that they don't actually have anything to say on the actual topic at hand or from trying to shift the goalposts.Of course, there is a lot of extra things that come up because you are right when you say everything is connected. But that is easily handled by spinning off another focussed thread.

Absolutely NOTHING in your post is on topic.Please try to stay on topic.

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Yes, because 'faith' is also known as 'guessing', and guessing don't work too good.

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You need to erase the idea that man is "guessing" about what is beyond this life. This is a view that shows little scientific reasoning. You are on the outside looking in, and because you are ignorant and unwilling to look for answers, you won't even try looking at things from the inside. You have the idea branded into your brain that evolution MUST be true, and anyone who even scientifically questions it MUST be crazy. You can keep that idealism if you want, but until you actually LOOK for answers instead of choosing them, most of what you say will be scientifically biased and unacceptable.

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Thank you for illustrating my point.
I've made 15 total posts on these boards, and you seem to think you know me well enough to figure out what's going on in my head. This is what I'd expect from a person who has an emotional need for certainty -- one so strong that they cannot wait for verification, as they need their pacifier NOW!
Does that describe you?
If so, can I wager a guess on the argument you used to come up with that model of me?1. The Bible is right.
2. The Bible says, "Seek and ye shall find."
3. He did not find.
4. Therefore, he did not seek.Of course, (1) is unproven, so the conclusion is at an indeterminate truth value. Thus, any assertion that it's true based solely on the argument qualifies as a guess.Did you use that argument, or something similar?See what I'm doing? I'm asking you questions -- looking for verification that my tentative model is accurate. I don't demand that reality conform to my model -- I allow my model to conform to reality.

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Evolution is in control of nothing. It's a theory.
However, rational human beings are, for the most part, in control of schools. (I'll withold judgment on government, and society controls itself.) You seem to take issue with this, and seem to want equal time for the whackos.

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You sure you want to publisize that statement? Kids in schools are taught evolution as an unquestionable fact,

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Children are no longer being taught the scientific method, or are being taught that the ToE isn't a scientific theory? Are they, perhaps, being taught that it came from God?Once you combine knowledge of the scientific method with knowledge that it's a scientific theory, there's no way around that it's open to modification if not downright disproof. You don't need stickers to tell you that -- never mind ones that use 'theory' equivocally -- since it's already in there.

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and that is due to un-rationable people who simply don't like religion.

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Or simply prefer the scientific method over some 'religious methods', such as: "We are right. If you don't agree with us, we won't sell your wagon train any supplies; then we'll dress up as Indians and kill everyone under the age of accountability, thus saving them through blood atonement."

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Did you know that Darwin was religious? Did you know that he was agianst the removal of God from schools?

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Appeal to authority?
Too bad science isn't based off that.

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People who control school curriculum don't neccesarily believe or what to believe in evolution. Many just are against kids learning about a God.

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Funny, I haven't heard of any petitions to shut down Sunday schools.

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The society statement is incorrect. Society does not control itself. Certain individuals control society. Don't misjudge me, I'm not a conspiracy guy or anything,

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You certainly sound like one.
Why didn't you come out and name these 'certain individuals'? Afraid that they'd come after you? Or, more likely, afraid that you'd be laughed off the boards?

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but most people care about what's on TV tonight more than what is being printed in textbooks and being written by scientists.

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Some things should be left to the experts. It's not 'peer review' if you let idiots do it.Would you want me to have a veto over what gets said in your church?

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You're speculating as to the motives of this hypothetical being-in-hiding. You've also just implied that it's not omniscient, as an omniscient being wouldn't need to wait to know anything.

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Did you ever see that movie, Minority Report? When they punished the criminals for crimes they hadn't committed, becuase they knew the criminals were gonna do it soon anyway? Did you ever see that one? Did it seem at all wrong to you when you watched it that these people had not yet done what they were being punished for? Hmmm? If not, your probably a lawyer or an executive producer, but if you did, then would it seem right for God to send you to Hell without giving you a chance to prove yourself? No. The action, and then the reaction.
And no speculation required, this is LDS church doctrine.

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And all that means is that it was somebody else's speculation.As for Minority Report, the entire premise was that the future could be altered. There was no omniscience involved, as the three freaks could be wrong. In fact, they were wrong every time they saw a murder instead of seeing what really happened -- a person getting arrested.
For an analogue of omniscience, let's use the case of watching the movie.
Take a human. Extend his lifespan. Now have him watch Minority Report a billion times. At this point, he should know every word, every breath, every eyeblink in the movie. He's omniscient as far as it comes to knowing everything there is to know about Minority Report.
Now, why would he bother rewinding the movie, and watching it for the 1,000,000,001st time?This message has been edited by DominionSeraph, 02-20-2005 12:12 AM