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Author | Topic: What if God foreknew human reactions? | |||||||||||||||||||||||
PaulK Member Posts: 17822 Joined: Member Rating: 2.2 |
quote: NO that is NOT all we are debating. God's role in creating our universe is ALSO an essential part of my argument. Given that I have already had to correct you on this point I would have hoped that you would remember. And sinxe in your model Tg is important to THAT, Tg IS important.
quote: I explicitly stated the point of view in the section you quoted !And your point in introducing an addiitonal time dimension was so that our universe would NOT be eternal in that dimension to get around the problem of how a truly eternal universe could have a creator. YOu can't honestly have it both ways. quote: I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and assume that you are simply dead wrong in this assertion. After all you have failed to even remember what it is we are discussing.
quote: Wrong. My argument is based on the idea that God knows the future. Your super-cosmology complicates the picture by introducing two time-dimensions and two futures. It is my perogative to decide how this is to be dealt with in my argument - not yours.
quote: Easy enough - especially as I already did it.. To repeat the point it is illegitmate to talk ogf God's actions in terms of Tg because we are not aware of it, then that must apply to your arguments as well as mine. Simple. Where is the problem ??
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Phat Member Posts: 18262 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.1 |
Is it usual to "question" the Torah? Or is this what is mean't by Rabbinical commentaries and the great oral tradition?
How about the Messiah? Why was Jesus so un-Messiahlike? (OR NOT?)
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macaroniandcheese  Suspended Member (Idle past 3928 days) Posts: 4258 Joined: |
you'd have to ask a jew.
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Phat Member Posts: 18262 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.1 |
PaulK writes: How about believing an idea? In other words, Could God be true whether or not we see the slighest bit of evidence?
liking an idea has nothing to do with whether it is true or not.
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Phat Member Posts: 18262 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.1 |
brennakimi writes: What? Why is it legit to comment on N.T. Protestantism without being a Protestant, while it is "inappropriate" to discuss the Torah if not Jewish?
you'd have to ask a jew.
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DominionSeraph Member (Idle past 4755 days) Posts: 365 From: on High Joined: |
Catholic Scientist writes: Is omnipotence limited to any laws? If it is then it isn't omnipotenece. Which is a law unto itself, so it's self-contradictory. This message has been edited by DominionSeraph, 09-22-2005 05:26 PM
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DominionSeraph Member (Idle past 4755 days) Posts: 365 From: on High Joined: |
Phatboy writes: How about the Messiah? Why was Jesus so un-Messiahlike? Didn't restore the Davidic Kingdom. No world peace. And he died, so he certainly didn't end death.
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DominionSeraph Member (Idle past 4755 days) Posts: 365 From: on High Joined: |
Phatboy writes: How about believing an idea? In other words, Could God be true whether or not we see the slighest bit of evidence? Of course. But anything which leaves no evidence is irrelevant.
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PaulK Member Posts: 17822 Joined: Member Rating: 2.2 |
All sorts of things COULD be true. Catholic Scientist's idea of God isn't one of them. In my view many other Christian ideas of God are also impossible, but not all of them.
But to say that something COULD be true is to say very little. If that is the best you can say of it then you haven't got a good reason to think that it is true. Could Christianity be a complete fraud which exists only to feed a soul-eating demon ? It could. But I don't believe that even though it doesn't make any less sense to me than orthodox Christianity
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Phat Member Posts: 18262 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.1 |
OK...so the "perfect" Messiah would bring about world peace, restore the Davidic Kingdom to just one ethnic group, and would never die...right?
I guess someday some alien will show up with superpowers and we will fall for that one! Anyway...My point stands for all of us: God foreknew that we would think the way that we do.
Mark 13:6-- Many will come in my name, claiming, 'I am he,' and will deceive many.
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Phat Member Posts: 18262 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.1 |
You certainly have many valid and solid arguments, Paul. I don't know exactly what you believe, but I DO know that when you consider the possibility of God, you have let Him know that you will never let your faith stand in the way of your intelligence!
I never let my intelligence stand in the way of my faith. Even if I were an agnostic, I would never be an atheist, because it comforts me to know that if humanity fails me or my family, I would have a chance at survival without counting on human wisdom alone. Perhaps this was similar to the last thoughts in the South Tower... Did God foreknow that certain people would die on a certain day at a certain time? Did He make His Spirit available to them at the moment when they were faced with burning to death or jumping out a window? Was it literally a leap of faith for them, or a leap of agony? I believe that it was faith for them.
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PaulK Member Posts: 17822 Joined: Member Rating: 2.2 |
Do you think that your chance of survival depends on what you beleive ?
Some - not that uncommon - Christian views hold that you will be tortured for eternity if you happened to belong to the wrong Church. I'd rather cease to exist than face that. And here's one of the issues I have with Christianity - no just and merciful God who wants to save everyone would make salvation dependent on doctrinal correctness when there is no way for us to know what the correct doctrine really is.
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Phat Member Posts: 18262 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.1 |
I agree with you. God judges us on where we are and where we know (or do not know) Him to be. The judgement is on whether we want Him to be in our lives or not. Some people say that they want Him, but then on their own terms. Others want nothing to do with Him yet would invite a stranger into their house from the cold.
PaulK writes: Only if I know in my heart that my belief is what I accept. I can then not go against what I have accepted. Do you think that your chance of survival depends on what you beleive? Religion has nothing much to do with it at all. You are better off questioning and praying in private and leaving the religious folks alone. It IS good for me as a believer to have a couple of like-minded folk to pray with. (In a way, even if we each do it privately, we are in communion) Salvation is an issue of the heart. This message has been edited by Phatboy, 09-22-2005 04:23 PM
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macaroniandcheese  Suspended Member (Idle past 3928 days) Posts: 4258 Joined: |
i'm just saying i don't know.
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New Cat's Eye Inactive Member |
Catholic Scientist writes: Is omnipotence limited to any laws? If it is then it isn't omnipotenece. Which is a law unto itself, so it's self-contradictory.
and?, I mean, so what? This message has been edited by Catholic Scientist, 09-23-2005 12:21 AM
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