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Author Topic:   Biblical atrocities... ????
forgiven
Inactive Member


Message 16 of 65 (28005)
12-27-2002 9:10 PM


topics like this one lead me to wonder at the purpose... do non-believers point to things they call "atrocities" in the bible in order to say something like "i don't believe in God because....." or what?
that kind of logic reduces to, i don't believe in God because i disagree with things he's said or done... my short answer is, so what?
God isn't in the dock, as lewis said... he is God, his actions are just and holy and require no apology from me or any other christian
God is perfectly just in his dealings with humanity... the fact that some argue about the form his justice took at one time, or takes now, has no bearing on that...
but the thing that *really* gets to me in discussions like this is, where in the world do people who deny the existence of good and evil get the notion that an act of God is good *or* bad? how convenient to appeal to some moral standard they deny exists when the subject is God
God is the creator, we are the creatures... God is perfectly holy and just, we are not... none of us are innocent, not one... and any judgement God proscribes is, by definition, just

Replies to this message:
 Message 17 by Coragyps, posted 12-27-2002 9:29 PM forgiven has replied
 Message 19 by Mr. Davies, posted 12-28-2002 12:40 AM forgiven has not replied
 Message 22 by Gzus, posted 12-29-2002 10:08 AM forgiven has not replied

  
forgiven
Inactive Member


Message 18 of 65 (28009)
12-27-2002 11:04 PM
Reply to: Message 17 by Coragyps
12-27-2002 9:29 PM


quote:
Originally posted by Coragyps:
quote:
God isn't in the dock, as lewis said... he is God, his actions are just and holy and require no apology from me or any other christian.
Yeah, at least as just as Idi Amin eating his political opponents' livers while they're forced to watch...
Genocidal atrocities are still exactly that, no matter who commits them or at whose orders. I take a little comfort, at least, in knowing that a large part of the conquests and probably all of the death tolls reported in Joshua, etc, are fictional.

you write the above as if you care, as if you have some standard against which you are measuring the supposed atrocities found in the bible... do you? where does it come from? or is it mere preference on your part?
why should amin not eat his opponent's livers? what makes his act morally wrong? suppose he woke up one morning and said, "should i tie my shoes or torture an enemy?"... what would make one act better or worse than the other?
btw, define genocidal atrocities for me... tell me what makes them right or wrong...

This message is a reply to:
 Message 17 by Coragyps, posted 12-27-2002 9:29 PM Coragyps has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 24 by Coragyps, posted 12-29-2002 1:46 PM forgiven has replied

  
forgiven
Inactive Member


Message 25 of 65 (28071)
12-29-2002 4:07 PM
Reply to: Message 24 by Coragyps
12-29-2002 1:46 PM


quote:
Originally posted by Coragyps:
I do care! I have to live in this world, as do my children and grandchild. Thing just plain go more pleasantly if folks aren't munching on other folks' livers! Any animal that lives in a "society" has rules to regulate that society, at least at the local level: a pack of wolves treat each other with "courtesy", mutually care for the pups, and share the work and defense of the pack. A pride of lions babysit each others' cubs and hunt cooperatively. Even bluejays will quickly learn to cooperate with each other when a future, shared reward is larger than an immediate, selfish one.
These examples, admittedly, draw the line at the family or "tribal" unit. I like to think that we as humans have enough cognitive ability to extend our "tribes" a little beyond the family, and learn that cooperation makes life more pleasant for all of us (though we have done a pretty crappy job, historically, of learning that lesson.)
Mammy Yokum of the comic strip "Lil' Abner" really stated it very well: "Good is better than evil because it's nicer."
ok... my point was, for anyone (even mammy yokum) to make any statement concerning good and evil is to grant that both exist... it's to grant that there's some standard to judge by... that's all

This message is a reply to:
 Message 24 by Coragyps, posted 12-29-2002 1:46 PM Coragyps has not replied

  
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