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Author
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Topic: Are visions from God, or the Devil or indigestion?
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techristian
Member (Idle past 4121 days) Posts: 60 Joined: 04-03-2002
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Message 1 of 41 (34803)
03-20-2003 4:40 PM
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I saw this in my "minds eye" as I was going to sleep on Tuesday night. I only see this kind of thing maybe once a year, if that. I haven't been able to find the building on the web but I know that I have seen it before. Are there real visions? Does this have any significance or is this caused by some random misfirings in my brain or bad pizza? Are there real psychics?? If so, then where do they get their "power" from? How can we distinguish between a good prophet and an evil prophet? Dan
http://musicinit.com
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Andya Primanda
Inactive Member
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seen it somewhere
There is one buliding quite like your description in Jakarta, the BNI Tower.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 1 by techristian, posted 03-20-2003 4:40 PM | | techristian has not replied |
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nator
Member (Idle past 2188 days) Posts: 12961 From: Ann Arbor Joined: 12-09-2001
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quote:
I saw this in my "minds eye" as I was going to sleep on Tuesday night. I only see this kind of thing maybe once a year, if that. I haven't been able to find the building on the web but I know that I have seen it before.
I dreamed that alien spacecraft bombed the whitehouse a few days ago. I interpret that as my mind's creative manifestation of my opposition to the attack on Iraq. You almost certainly have dreams every night, but you don't remember them. If you were hooked up to a monitor and were woken when you went into REM sleep, you would be able to recount every dream.
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Are there real visions?
I dunno. What's a vision?
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Does this have any significance or is this caused by some random misfirings in my brain or bad pizza?
I dunno. What do you mean by "significance"?
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Are there real psychics??
Very doubtful. So far, any psychic who has been tested under standard controlled conditions has done no better than chance would predict. People like von Pragh and Sylvia Browne refuse to be tested, because they probably know that they will fail. Psychics are skilled cold readers, and people like Jon Edwards of "Crossing Over" infamy, cheat.
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If so, then where do they get their "power" from? How can we distinguish between a good prophet and an evil prophet?
I don't think we need to start wondering about "real" psychics until one crops up.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 1 by techristian, posted 03-20-2003 4:40 PM | | techristian has not replied |
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Jesuslover153
Inactive Member
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Just the other day I was reading through Zechariah and when I came to chapter 9 there was this word 'Oracle' which comes from the hebrew word 'Massa' which means; oracle, prophecy, utterance. it is related to a word that is spelled and pronounced the same way 'Massa' which means to carry, lift up. Burden, load; desire, longing... so perhaps this word means a message from the Lord was a 'burden' within the prophets until they expressed it... this study is from the Hebrew-Greek Key Word Study Bible... I certainly believe that 'Massa' can be imparted to us humans through spiritual forces... I pray that we are revealed here how to differentiate between the source. Certainly I have received 'Massa' and witnessed it come true through out the years... but we do have to be careful for there is a need for us to appeal to God for instruction in this... Join me in prayer brethren that we may have a greater knowledge and edification.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 1 by techristian, posted 03-20-2003 4:40 PM | | techristian has not replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 5 by nator, posted 03-24-2003 8:15 AM | | Jesuslover153 has replied |
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nator
Member (Idle past 2188 days) Posts: 12961 From: Ann Arbor Joined: 12-09-2001
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quote:
Certainly I have received 'Massa' and witnessed it come true through out the years.
To be accurate, I would suggest that you believe that you have received 'massa'.
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Jesuslover153
Inactive Member
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Message 6 of 41 (35135)
03-24-2003 2:41 PM
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Reply to: Message 5 by nator
03-24-2003 8:15 AM
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I am sure that I know that I have.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 5 by nator, posted 03-24-2003 8:15 AM | | nator has replied |
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nator
Member (Idle past 2188 days) Posts: 12961 From: Ann Arbor Joined: 12-09-2001
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quote:
I am sure that I know that I have.
The people who believe they have been abducted by aliens have just as much surety and conviction in that what happened to them is real as you have that you have received "massa". The problem is, you both have exactly the same amount of evidence to support your claims. Why should I believe either of you?
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techristian
Member (Idle past 4121 days) Posts: 60 Joined: 04-03-2002
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Message 8 of 41 (35524)
03-27-2003 11:17 PM
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Thanks for replying. I'll check out that building. This is the first time that I have ever posted what I "dreamed" I'm now noticing that this is more common than I already mentioned. I seem to see all kinds of things while I'm on the verge of falling asleep. Usually they are related to things that I'm working on or have seen. What made this "building" interesting was that it was completely unrelated to anything on my mind at the time. I have been to Chicago more than a few years ago and NYC in 2000, but why should I see this image today? HMMM should I look at my NYC video tape for clues near the Citicorp building? Here are a few links that others have supplied. http://www.nyu.edu/classes/finearts/nyc/pa...k/citicorp.htmlFourth & Blanchard Building, Seattle | 119417 | EMPORISCrain Communications Building, Chicago | 116680 | EMPORIS To save bandwidth, I have made a web page regarding this experience. http://etnot.com/mystery.html
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Mister Pamboli
Member (Idle past 7596 days) Posts: 634 From: Washington, USA Joined: 12-10-2001
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Message 9 of 41 (35526)
03-28-2003 12:28 AM
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Reply to: Message 3 by nator
03-22-2003 9:23 AM
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quote:
You almost certainly have dreams every night, but you don't remember them. If you were hooked up to a monitor and were woken when you went into REM sleep, you would be able to recount every dream.
Here's a funny thing: I'm not sure this would happen. I have a playful - partly serious - notion of why this might not be so. I frequently have dreams which lead up to an unpredictable waking waking event. For example, in my dream I'm driving and I crash the car: I wake up at that instant just as an overloaded bookshelf in my library crashes to the floor. I know many people have similar experiences and find them very mysterious. Yet you are right, too. The "activity" of dreaming seems very real - the REM sleep, the twitching, speaking even. Imagine if it actually happens like this. During REM sleep, during what appear to others to be our dreaming state, our mind is actually just firing off largely out of its normal patter and therapeutically - you could compare it to defragging a hard drive, perhaps. See it as a way of relaxing those neurons that are overused during the day, and exercising the underused ones - the better to ensure that rarely activated, but potentially valuable, neural pathways are still "primed." On waking, we now have our memory in a given state, and critically it likely includes our waking event if there was one. How do we interpret this state? By doing what the human mind always does - we construct a narrative which explains, however bizzarely, how we got there. Think of it like the martian vacation in the movie Total Recall - all the memories of a vacation with none of the inconvenience of actually having one! It would be interesting to consider what experiments might confirm this notion, were it to be fleshed out to a hypothesis. Philosophically there would be an objection, I suppose, to even the possibility of determining that an unconscious subject was dreaming at a given moment. Norman Malcolm, the American logical positivist, outlined such objections in his fine book "Dreaming." What do you think?
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 3 by nator, posted 03-22-2003 9:23 AM | | nator has replied |
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techristian
Member (Idle past 4121 days) Posts: 60 Joined: 04-03-2002
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Message 10 of 41 (35648)
03-28-2003 4:02 PM
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Mr. Pamboli It is good to hear from you again! From what you have written, I gather that you feel that dreaming is nothing more than BIOLOGICAL NEUROELECTRICAL EVENTS of the brain. Have you ever considered the myriad of biblical prophecies that are now unfolding on the world scene? Have you ever SEEN , SMELLED OR HEARD an unrelated image in your "minds eye" while fully AWAKE? I'm speaking of an irrelevant image popping into your mind from nowhere? An example of this may be that you are sitting in a restaurant talking about the war and out of nowhere while in the middle of thought the image of a field of flowers comes into your mind. No one at the table has any perfume on and there are no flowers nearby to TRIGGER the thought. You also have NO PLANS whatsoever to visit such a place. Would that spark your curiosity? I have had the experience of SMELLING FIRE when watching a fire on TV, but I have also had the experience for no reason whatsoever. It passes within a minute. Dan [This message has been edited by techristian, 03-28-2003]
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Mister Pamboli
Member (Idle past 7596 days) Posts: 634 From: Washington, USA Joined: 12-10-2001
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Hi Dan What I am suggesting is that dreaming is the mind's response to neuroelectrical events. I guess that leaves room for those responses to be open to other influences - spirtual, if you will. quote:
I'm speaking of an irrelevant image popping into your mind from nowhere? An example of this may be that you are sitting in a restaurant talking about the war and out of nowhere while in the middle of thought the image of a field of flowers comes into your mind.
Oh sure - if you're not talking about hullicinations or calentures, but just images coming to mind. Frequently I try to recapture what the trigger was, but it is often so fleeting. Just this morning in a meeting I suddenly felt like I tasted something from my childhood, for no reason, and I couldn't quite place it - I think it was semolina pudding. It sparks my curiosity, sure enough, but doesn't strike me as spiritual. How's the music, btw? Still going strong?
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 10 by techristian, posted 03-28-2003 4:02 PM | | techristian has not replied |
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Jesuslover153
Inactive Member
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Message 12 of 41 (35729)
03-29-2003 4:35 PM
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Reply to: Message 7 by nator
03-26-2003 6:54 AM
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I certainly do believe that some people have been abducted, but these aliens again come to mind as being Angelic beings whom fell from grace... they could just be dreams or visions, I am not one to judge... and do not take my word for it, Ask God.. James 1:5-8
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 7 by nator, posted 03-26-2003 6:54 AM | | nator has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 15 by nator, posted 03-29-2003 11:34 PM | | Jesuslover153 has not replied |
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Jesuslover153
Inactive Member
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The best explanation I have heard that parts from God given dreams is that when we go into the state of sleep, our body drops a degree of temp. If our brain were to do this there would be certain damage done, so in response our brain shoots off neurological impulses which translate into REM accompanied with dreams...
I believe that for most of us humans that sadly this is all it will ever amount too, the only difference I believe is when we have faith that God is the giver of dreams and the 'only' interpreter of dreams...
I certainly encourage prayer to accompany anyone having a vision or dream and they are made uncomfortable by it, wondering if there is more to it than indegestion, and neurological activity...
The Pharoah and Joseph come to my mind...
and just for the record I state that I am not a prophet because inwardly I am much like a ravening wolf...(at least what my vision of one is) I am an angry person... so in that vein pray for me that I may truelly be humble.
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 14 by nator, posted 03-29-2003 11:29 PM | | Jesuslover153 has not replied |
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nator
Member (Idle past 2188 days) Posts: 12961 From: Ann Arbor Joined: 12-09-2001
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quote:
The best explanation I have heard that parts from God given dreams is that when we go into the state of sleep, our body drops a degree of temp. If our brain were to do this there would be certain damage done, so in response our brain shoots off neurological impulses which translate into REM accompanied with dreams...
Who told you that? Uh, wow, that is some explanation. It's also wrong. In fact, lowering of body temperature is being used to prevent brain damage in people in cardiac arrest who have a sudden loss of blood pressure, and slightly lowering body temperature during heart surgery protects the brain. http://www.mercola.com/2002/mar/6/cardiac_arrest.htm I suggest maybe reading up on sleep and dreams from a scientific/Biological perspective.
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I believe that for most of us humans that sadly this is all it will ever amount too, the only difference I believe is when we have faith that God is the giver of dreams and the 'only' interpreter of dreams...
Why is it sad? I think it is amazingly cool and deeply fascinating that our brains are so complex.
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nator
Member (Idle past 2188 days) Posts: 12961 From: Ann Arbor Joined: 12-09-2001
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I certainly do believe that some people have been abducted, but these aliens again come to mind as being Angelic beings whom fell from grace...
So, is the reason you believe someone is the conviction with which they believe what they are saying? I'll be there are at least 30 or 40 people who believe that they are Jesus, and they hold this belief passionately, with all theiir hearts.
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they could just be dreams or visions, I am not one to judge...
You are not one to judge? You don't think you have any power or ability to discern the likely from the unlikely, and that which is supported by reliable evidence and that which isn't? So, do you believe that gravity is caused by invisible fairies which push down on everything all the time?
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