Religion v Spirituality

That is not energy: that is you calling something that is not energy, energy.

I used to see these aspects of self as just a way of experiencing life, just who we are. No real meaning. However, I can personally testify all of my energies from this inside source of belief systems has created my life experiences. I have no doubt of this. The latest belief to crumble within me is the one of christianity.
I was raised a christian with christian morals and values which had the effect of me never being good enough and fear of not being good enough. The christian in me robbed me of my dreams and my life. Powerful? I would say so. Well, now I say to jesus "I was always good enough, you pillock". lol I am in the 2nd category. Edited by pelican, : No reason given.Edited by pelican, : No reason given.

Way to miss the point. No point in what? Debating?{ABE: I will read the rest of the thread and offer my commentary afterwards. I don't want to drag the thread back to a place where my comments don't evolve the discussion further.}Edited by Jaderis, : No reason given.

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"You are metaphysicians. You can prove anything by metaphysics; and having done so, every metaphysician can prove every other metaphysician wrong--to his own satisfaction. You are anarchists in the realm of thought. And you are mad cosmos-makers. Each of you dwells in a cosmos of his own making, created out of his own fancies and desires. You do not know the real world in which you live, and your thinking has no place in the real world except in so far as it is phenomena of mental aberration." -The Iron Heel by Jack London"Hazards exist that are not marked" - some bar in Chelsea

That is a nice story but you are still very very wrong to call your internal motivations and drives energy.Why don't you see that what you are calling energy is not energy but motivation derived from you current set of beliefs.Just like my set of beliefs drives me to attain high qualifications in my field: it's not energy it's what I choose to do.

The point of my story was to show how my ingrained beliefs shaped and or created my life experiences. Just using the one of christianity as an example, I emulated the persona of jesus and did not follow my dreams for myself. It was a powerful driving force that led me to lead a life I did not want.
Although this belief is not felt as an energy, it was certainly very powerful. This belief was instrumental in suppression of my own emotions that I now feel very strongly. I am experiencing feelings that I have never experienced before without the physical stimulation. These feelings I have now and the beliefs I have now are shaping and/or creating new experiences in my life. My concept is very simple, probably too simple to be taken seriously but I know it is true for me. I know we are all a product of our experiences as I was. I fell big time and am now a work in progress on building a new, original belief system that stands alone. regards

As I said, great story.But you must understand that all of that is not energy. It is what has happened to you to shape you beliefs, attititudes and motivations.It has nothing to do with energy!A motivation is not energy!Your prior experience is not energy!

How are they differentiated?The only reason I know that I feel hate towards someone is because of the physical reaction I get.The only reason I know that I feel love towards someone is because of the physical reaction i get.My "mind" might rationalize both of these emotions (as well as all of the others) and allow me to express them in words, but my body actually has a reaction (and cannot often be expressed in words).

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"You are metaphysicians. You can prove anything by metaphysics; and having done so, every metaphysician can prove every other metaphysician wrong--to his own satisfaction. You are anarchists in the realm of thought. And you are mad cosmos-makers. Each of you dwells in a cosmos of his own making, created out of his own fancies and desires. You do not know the real world in which you live, and your thinking has no place in the real world except in so far as it is phenomena of mental aberration." -The Iron Heel by Jack London"Hazards exist that are not marked" - some bar in Chelsea

None of which has anything to do with energy or spirituality for that matter. You have allowed yourself to drift off into self-referential circular logic. In Message 137 you say; So, to rephrase that into something resembling English, you know that these "energies" are true because you know that they are true. That is not much of a basis for anything except self-congratulatory waffle.
Energy is just a buzz-word when it is used as you use it. It's meaningless. It just makes your ideas sound flaky and you sound foolish. No, it is too vague and nonsensical to be taken seriously.

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Mutate and Survive

yes I understand what you are saying and I agree with your perception from your life experiences.What I haven't said is that these beliefs were in my 'subconscious'. I had no awareness that these beliefs which formed my motivations/attitudes and ego. I was so engaged in the material/physical world and was 'being myself' I did not know they were even there.About 10yrs ago, when 'being myself' no longer worked for me, I crashed. It is through this period of my life that I know I wasn't 'being me'. I was moulded into never being good enough because the bar of christianity was too high.The energy behind those beliefs, emotions and thoughts had the power to change me and my life. I know I have the power to do it again i.e change me and change my life, but this time in full awareness and from the inside out.Edited by pelican, : No reason given.

Exactly. I have tried to translate this wonder to theists many times, but have lacked the vocabulary to do so without letting their minds latch onto one loaded word.I find it numinous that I am made of stars. I find it numinous that every one of my ancestors has "made it." I find it numinous that I am here with my consciousness typing my words to you. But, why would I give the credit to some being for which there is no evidence for?It is numinous and awe inspiring, but it, also, just is. As the etching on the transformers of my childhood say "Pepper wuz here." What I do beyond that is up to me. And that is numinous.

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"You are metaphysicians. You can prove anything by metaphysics; and having done so, every metaphysician can prove every other metaphysician wrong--to his own satisfaction. You are anarchists in the realm of thought. And you are mad cosmos-makers. Each of you dwells in a cosmos of his own making, created out of his own fancies and desires. You do not know the real world in which you live, and your thinking has no place in the real world except in so far as it is phenomena of mental aberration." -The Iron Heel by Jack London"Hazards exist that are not marked" - some bar in Chelsea

It is exactly this reaction that cannot be described in words that I am referring to. When I have this physical reaction I can name it anything I want but in truth, it is a sensation.

Um..the what? How is that different from the "supernatural?"Can you quantify the "natural" part of a person and then say that they have gone "super?" I agree with Mandela, but possibly in a different way than he did (I don't know I haven't been able to ask him).People have a problem with attributing their intelligence or their talent or their sense to themselves or sometimes even to their family or community. They instead attribute it to some invisible deity. They do not think highly of themselves (or those who have helped them). Or not "highly enough."They think that they would not have been able to achieve what they did without divine interference. I like to chalk it up to human ingenuity. We can always do better. And we will.We must think "highly" of ourselves.

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"You are metaphysicians. You can prove anything by metaphysics; and having done so, every metaphysician can prove every other metaphysician wrong--to his own satisfaction. You are anarchists in the realm of thought. And you are mad cosmos-makers. Each of you dwells in a cosmos of his own making, created out of his own fancies and desires. You do not know the real world in which you live, and your thinking has no place in the real world except in so far as it is phenomena of mental aberration." -The Iron Heel by Jack London"Hazards exist that are not marked" - some bar in Chelsea

But you tried to separate the emotional from the physical.Just because you cannot describe the "sensation" in words does not mean that it is not a physical reaction.We can name it anything we want to. We can even pretend it (our rational reaction to it) is not there, but the physical reaction is there. That is how we know what we are feeling "emotionally."Otherwise, we are sociopaths, just going through the motions because we understand the actions and reasons behind the "emotion" but not actually feeling (physically) all of the reactions associated with the emotion.There is a physical response to every emotion. They can be explained by science but they cannot be separated.The problem with describing the emotion in words is not a problem of science, but of linguistics and individual talent.

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"You are metaphysicians. You can prove anything by metaphysics; and having done so, every metaphysician can prove every other metaphysician wrong--to his own satisfaction. You are anarchists in the realm of thought. And you are mad cosmos-makers. Each of you dwells in a cosmos of his own making, created out of his own fancies and desires. You do not know the real world in which you live, and your thinking has no place in the real world except in so far as it is phenomena of mental aberration." -The Iron Heel by Jack London"Hazards exist that are not marked" - some bar in Chelsea

Why will it only concern the human race?What is so special about us?When will we all know it?

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"You are metaphysicians. You can prove anything by metaphysics; and having done so, every metaphysician can prove every other metaphysician wrong--to his own satisfaction. You are anarchists in the realm of thought. And you are mad cosmos-makers. Each of you dwells in a cosmos of his own making, created out of his own fancies and desires. You do not know the real world in which you live, and your thinking has no place in the real world except in so far as it is phenomena of mental aberration." -The Iron Heel by Jack London"Hazards exist that are not marked" - some bar in Chelsea

Because we have a consciousness.
Because we have a consciousness.
Not a clue because it depends on the individual. I believe some already know it and it has a ripple effect on the mass consciousness. We are far more connected than just physically and I am not speaking of anything supernatural, just natural that is super.
Take our imaginations as one example. Look at the creations from the collective imaginations. Is it possible that we can create from more than just the mind? Is our consciousness contained in only the mind? Is it possible that we create from pain, desire, hate, love, empathy, rejection, unworthiness etc.?
I know I have for sure.