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Author Topic:   Religion v Spirituality
pelican
Member (Idle past 5104 days)
Posts: 781
From: australia
Joined: 05-27-2007


Message 1 of 161 (449017)
01-16-2008 12:13 AM


I heard this saying recently :that religion is for those who are afraid of going to hell and spirituality is for those who have already been.
I believe many percieve them to be the same. Personally I believe they are totally different just as the saying implies.
Religion is concerned with knowing god and the afterlife.
Spirituality is concerned with knowing self and this life.
Does religion stunt spiritual growth? Does spirituality promote growth? Or alternatively, have they absolutely no connection?

Replies to this message:
 Message 3 by Larni, posted 01-16-2008 7:12 AM pelican has replied
 Message 4 by Phat, posted 01-16-2008 9:48 AM pelican has replied
 Message 6 by macaroniandcheese, posted 01-16-2008 2:48 PM pelican has not replied

  
pelican
Member (Idle past 5104 days)
Posts: 781
From: australia
Joined: 05-27-2007


Message 7 of 161 (449122)
01-16-2008 6:42 PM
Reply to: Message 3 by Larni
01-16-2008 7:12 AM


Hi Larni, I find your obsevations very interesting but wonder why you HATE the word spiritual? That is a strong feeling over something you don't believe in. Also why do you say that neither religion or spirituality are required? Required for what? We cannot deny their existence.
I see the distinction you make between physical reality and non-physical reality but does that mean spirituality does not exist?
I agree that connoctations of spirituality is 'bandied' about in the most amazing, mythical non-sensical way as far as reality is concerned. No offense intended. However, if spirituality is taken to be all that exists that is unseen, it paints a more down to earth picture.
I am referring only to knowable existence of the unseen, not the imaginary unseen. For example, is the feeling of hate physical? Are any of our emotions physical? Are our minds physical? Are our thoughts, consciousness, subconsciousness, beliefs, egos, perceptions, awareness, imaginations, dreams etc, physical?
They all exist but none can be seen. Could the whole of our unseen, combined, constitute our spirit? Is it not a separate part of us that is housed by our bodies?
A great deal of the emerging spirituality is from the imaginations and not from the whole. It is used as a 'feel better' exercise that is always temporary and has no lasting effect, unless continuously practised or paid for.
There is much confusion, and 'spirituality' appears to be having the same effect as religion in so far as neither use the whole truth and play on the fears of their followers.
The reason I began this thread was in hope that we could come to a sensible working definition of the emerging spirituality. A middle of the road spirituality. A Down to Earth Spirituality.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 3 by Larni, posted 01-16-2008 7:12 AM Larni has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 13 by Larni, posted 01-17-2008 3:31 AM pelican has replied

  
pelican
Member (Idle past 5104 days)
Posts: 781
From: australia
Joined: 05-27-2007


Message 8 of 161 (449128)
01-16-2008 6:57 PM
Reply to: Message 4 by Phat
01-16-2008 9:48 AM


Re: Definitions
Phat, your post indicates you believe the religious dogma. How can you separate religious dogma from your definition of spirituality. You are defining them the same. Both being about god!
How could you have known about god but for the religious dogma? There is no difference.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 4 by Phat, posted 01-16-2008 9:48 AM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
pelican
Member (Idle past 5104 days)
Posts: 781
From: australia
Joined: 05-27-2007


Message 9 of 161 (449131)
01-16-2008 7:05 PM
Reply to: Message 5 by Phat
01-16-2008 9:53 AM


Re: A Matter Of Perspective
PHAT :[Thats assuming, of course, that empiricism is the only path to self awareness.]
Is there any other way taking into account ALL of our senses, not just the physical ones?

This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
 Message 10 by AdminPD, posted 01-16-2008 8:30 PM pelican has replied
 Message 14 by Larni, posted 01-17-2008 3:36 AM pelican has replied

  
pelican
Member (Idle past 5104 days)
Posts: 781
From: australia
Joined: 05-27-2007


Message 11 of 161 (449161)
01-16-2008 10:26 PM
Reply to: Message 10 by AdminPD
01-16-2008 8:30 PM


Re: The Quote Mine
quote:
ta love
I'm a slow learner
heinrik writes:
Maybe I'm not

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pelican
Member (Idle past 5104 days)
Posts: 781
From: australia
Joined: 05-27-2007


Message 17 of 161 (449206)
01-17-2008 5:48 AM
Reply to: Message 13 by Larni
01-17-2008 3:31 AM


Knowable spirituality
I don't believe I have a physical organ called hate!
larni writes:
All these are physical and have physical indicators that can be measured (often by me) in the course of psychological assessments.
If you believe psychological is physical, there's no point, is there?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 13 by Larni, posted 01-17-2008 3:31 AM Larni has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 20 by Larni, posted 01-17-2008 7:24 AM pelican has replied
 Message 138 by Jaderis, posted 02-24-2008 5:12 AM pelican has not replied

  
pelican
Member (Idle past 5104 days)
Posts: 781
From: australia
Joined: 05-27-2007


Message 18 of 161 (449208)
01-17-2008 5:59 AM
Reply to: Message 14 by Larni
01-17-2008 3:36 AM


Re: A Matter Of Perspective
You experience the unseen energy as a physical feeling but they themselves are not a physical organ within the body. They do not exist physically otherwise we would be able to see them. The fact that we can only observe them from a feeling proves they are not physical.
If mine is an example of woowoo thinking, what kind of thinking confuses the physical with non-physical?

This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
 Message 21 by Larni, posted 01-17-2008 7:29 AM pelican has replied

  
pelican
Member (Idle past 5104 days)
Posts: 781
From: australia
Joined: 05-27-2007


Message 19 of 161 (449210)
01-17-2008 6:01 AM
Reply to: Message 14 by Larni
01-17-2008 3:36 AM


thinking of thinking
You experience the unseen energy as a physical feeling but they themselves are not a physical organ within the body. They do not exist physically otherwise we would be able to see them. The fact that we can only observe them from a feeling proves they are not physical.
If mine is an example of woowoo thinking, what kind of thinking confuses the physical with non-physical?

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 Message 14 by Larni, posted 01-17-2008 3:36 AM Larni has not replied

  
pelican
Member (Idle past 5104 days)
Posts: 781
From: australia
Joined: 05-27-2007


Message 22 of 161 (449221)
01-17-2008 7:46 AM
Reply to: Message 20 by Larni
01-17-2008 7:24 AM


Re: Knowable spirituality
The body may well undergo physical changes because of an emotional reaction, but it still does not the make the emotion physical. All emotion is non-physical.
Do you think hate or do you feel it?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 20 by Larni, posted 01-17-2008 7:24 AM Larni has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 24 by Phat, posted 01-17-2008 8:16 AM pelican has replied
 Message 25 by Larni, posted 01-17-2008 8:44 AM pelican has replied

  
pelican
Member (Idle past 5104 days)
Posts: 781
From: australia
Joined: 05-27-2007


Message 23 of 161 (449223)
01-17-2008 7:48 AM
Reply to: Message 21 by Larni
01-17-2008 7:29 AM


Re: A Matter Of Perspective
Energy and matter are two different things. One may not exist without the other but it doesn't make them the same.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 21 by Larni, posted 01-17-2008 7:29 AM Larni has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 26 by Larni, posted 01-17-2008 8:53 AM pelican has replied

  
pelican
Member (Idle past 5104 days)
Posts: 781
From: australia
Joined: 05-27-2007


Message 36 of 161 (449358)
01-17-2008 7:06 PM
Reply to: Message 25 by Larni
01-17-2008 8:44 AM


Re: Knowable spirituality
Are your hateful 'thoughts' physical?
On the question of spirit, my definition is energy and I believe all combined non-physical aspects of self are spirit. You are disputing this. What is your idea of spirit?
A rose by any other name would smell just as sweet.
Edited by Heinrik, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 25 by Larni, posted 01-17-2008 8:44 AM Larni has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 39 by Woodsy, posted 01-18-2008 10:29 AM pelican has replied
 Message 41 by Larni, posted 01-18-2008 12:58 PM pelican has replied

  
pelican
Member (Idle past 5104 days)
Posts: 781
From: australia
Joined: 05-27-2007


Message 37 of 161 (449369)
01-17-2008 7:24 PM
Reply to: Message 26 by Larni
01-17-2008 8:53 AM


Re: A Matter Of Perspective
E=MC2 is a formula. It proves two forms of the same thing. However they are totally different forms and it is the enrgy side of the equasion that I am referring to. Einstein could clearly see the difference or else it wouldn't be a formula. It would be one form.
Maybe you see e=mc2 as something else, if so I would love to hear it.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 26 by Larni, posted 01-17-2008 8:53 AM Larni has not replied

  
pelican
Member (Idle past 5104 days)
Posts: 781
From: australia
Joined: 05-27-2007


Message 38 of 161 (449372)
01-17-2008 7:32 PM
Reply to: Message 24 by Phat
01-17-2008 8:16 AM


Emotional energy v physical reaction
I am referring to the emotions, not the physical reactions to them.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 24 by Phat, posted 01-17-2008 8:16 AM Phat has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 142 by Jaderis, posted 02-24-2008 7:10 AM pelican has replied

  
pelican
Member (Idle past 5104 days)
Posts: 781
From: australia
Joined: 05-27-2007


Message 42 of 161 (449730)
01-18-2008 9:10 PM
Reply to: Message 39 by Woodsy
01-18-2008 10:29 AM


wrong thread
Edited by dameeva, : wrong thread

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pelican
Member (Idle past 5104 days)
Posts: 781
From: australia
Joined: 05-27-2007


Message 43 of 161 (449733)
01-18-2008 9:13 PM
Reply to: Message 41 by Larni
01-18-2008 12:58 PM


Re: Knowable spirituality
Untill there is any evidence of spirit my idea of spirit is tha there is no such thing
If spirit doesn't exist by your reasoning, what are you actually disputing?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 41 by Larni, posted 01-18-2008 12:58 PM Larni has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 44 by Larni, posted 01-19-2008 2:06 PM pelican has replied

  
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