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Author Topic:   Religion v Spirituality
Stile
Member (Idle past 159 days)
Posts: 4295
From: Ontario, Canada
Joined: 12-02-2004


Message 96 of 161 (451011)
01-25-2008 3:52 PM
Reply to: Message 89 by pelican
01-23-2008 7:08 PM


So what is it?
Heinrik writes:
I learned everything I needed to know of the physical world and it wasn't enough. There was and is no meaning to our existence.
That's not what I learned from the physical world. The physical world only taught me that the physical world does not offer a meaning to our existance. This has no bearing on there being one or not. The spiritual world has also taught me that it offers no meaning to our existance (mostly 'cause it doesn't say much). I have not been shown any world that provides meaning to our existance. When I realized this, it was easy to realize that I could give meaning to my existance in any way I'd like. Much more freedom that way. And it's obvious that it takes much more strength to impose a righteous meaning on your own existance than it is to have it given to you from any external source.
However, whilst all the misconceptions you hold on to, for grim death, are actually blocking you from expanding your awareness.
Are you able to unblock this expansion somehow? Are you able to show how to be more aware of any misconceptions? Or can you identify any of these awareness-blocking misconceptions?
Heinrik in Message 87 writes:
Larni writes:
You appear to have no real reason to believe there is a 'spiritual' existence.
That is because I haven't given you one.
Are you able to provide one? What is it? You seem to be very hesitant to expand on giving any information. Is there a problem with sharing this information?
You seem to be saying you have all these wonderful ideas of how to help people break down their misconceptions, or how to help show the reality of a spiritual existance. But then you don't seem keen on providing what the help actually is. Maybe you know you can help, but you don't want to? Is this what your 'down to earth' spiritual existance does? Does it remove your desire to help others? Or maybe it reduces your freedom to only answering direct questions? I hope this message will suffice.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 89 by pelican, posted 01-23-2008 7:08 PM pelican has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 115 by pelican, posted 01-29-2008 7:30 AM Stile has replied

  
Stile
Member (Idle past 159 days)
Posts: 4295
From: Ontario, Canada
Joined: 12-02-2004


Message 119 of 161 (451939)
01-29-2008 10:11 AM
Reply to: Message 115 by pelican
01-29-2008 7:30 AM


So, again, what is it?
Heinrik writes:
Stile writes:
That's not what I learned from the physical world. The physical world only taught me that the physical world does not offer a meaning to our existance.
I said exactly the same thing but you disagree with me. I did not say there was no meaning in spirituality.
You're missing my point. I'm not talking about a meaning in spirituality either. I'm talking about a meaning in the physical world.
You said "There was and is no meaning to our existance" (as far as the physical world is concerned). That's not what I'm saying. I'm saying there certainly is a physical meaning to our existance, it's just not provided to us by the physical world itself. We certainly can create a physical meaning for ourselves in the physical world.
However, I am willing to answer any genuine questions that may arise.
...
So now I try to tread a little more tentatively and wait until I am asked.
I, um... I thought I did ask. That's what all these questions were for:
quote:
Are you able to provide one? What is it?
...
Is this what your 'down to earth' spiritual existance does?
I really would just like for you to explain whatever it is you're talking about.
But you did mention this:
I am preparing a topic to show the misconceptions some have with E=MC2 so we will see.
I don't understand what E=MC2 has to do with it, but if you meant you're preparing a new thread to discuss all the questions I've asked (along with everyone elses), then I'll wait for that.
I don't really know what's wrong with answering the questions in this thread, but if you really think another is best, then I'll wait to see what kind of information you actually have to share.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 115 by pelican, posted 01-29-2008 7:30 AM pelican has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 121 by pelican, posted 01-29-2008 11:00 AM Stile has replied

  
Stile
Member (Idle past 159 days)
Posts: 4295
From: Ontario, Canada
Joined: 12-02-2004


Message 125 of 161 (452037)
01-29-2008 12:56 PM
Reply to: Message 121 by pelican
01-29-2008 11:00 AM


Re: So, again, what is it?
Heinrik writes:
What 'physical meaning to our existence' do you mean? How come it is not provided to us?
By 'physical meaning to our existence', I mean pretty much any meaning we can come up with. For example "I want to have kids and teach them to be kind, gentle people" is a physical meaning to our existence. Or "I want to be the best ice-cream salesman in the country" is a physical meaning to our existence.
It's not provided to us because we make these meanings up ourselves. At least, I haven't heard of anything that provides these meanings.
I believe in a spirituality that isn't in a supernatural form and neither is it solid. It is an energy form that we cannot detect in a physical form, although we have produced this energy by splitting the atom.
But... all the energy we produced by splitting the atom is physical energy. What do you mean?
By "we cannot detect in a physical form", do you mean we just have no way to detect it right now? Or that it's impossible to ever detect? That is, is it something that is part of the physcial world, and we just don't know it yet, or is it something that will never, ever be physical in any way?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 121 by pelican, posted 01-29-2008 11:00 AM pelican has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 126 by pelican, posted 01-29-2008 8:23 PM Stile has replied

  
Stile
Member (Idle past 159 days)
Posts: 4295
From: Ontario, Canada
Joined: 12-02-2004


Message 130 of 161 (452742)
01-31-2008 9:10 AM
Reply to: Message 126 by pelican
01-29-2008 8:23 PM


Internal Energy
Heinrik writes:
Ah yes, Like a job, climbing mount everest, retirement at 50. Anything in the material world.
Can you identify any meaning/purpose that is not "in the material world"? I would even consider a purpose such as "to love as much as I can" or "to do what I can in order to gain access to the afterlife" as being in the material world.
Do you mean that this energy is a physical energy, in that it is measurable and quantifiable and identifiable? In this case it would have a specific name.
I'm afraid I don't have the education required to continue this line of thought where I'd like it to go. I really don't know too much about energy and relativity and mass and such. But, are you saying there's some energy in an atomic explosion that is not accounted for in some way? I was trying to say that atomic explosions occur exactly as we'ed expect them to. That is, all energy and mass components are accounted for (measured and quantifiable). Are you saying I'm wrong? If you are saying I'm wrong, can you explain to me what's being missed?
We know this energy is already there and yes, it is a part of the physical world that as yet we are only aware of in destructive form. Einstein's theory of everything was intended for the greater good but by using his theory in reverse, it became destructive. However that same energy is in all things appearing/contained in different life forms.
I agree, yes. We all have atoms, that could theoretically-possibly be split, and their energy could be released. Is that what you mean here?
I believe we, as individuals and collectively, possess this energy. It is in connecting with this energy that will lift us to another realm. Hence, my definition of 'down to earth spirituality'.
We possess this energy?
I agree to that in the sense of possess that the atoms with this energy are a part of our physical bodies.
I do not agree to that in the sense of possess that implys we somehow have control over this energy. What makes you think we can control the internal-energy inside the atoms of our bodies?
And then we jump to "this energy that will lift us to another realm". I'm not sure where that comes from. I mean, even if we assume we can tap into this energy somehow... what makes you think it will lift us to another realm? Why wouldn't it do something else, like maybe... give us the ability of telepathy, or maybe we'ed spontaneously explode in a mini-atom bomb. Why do you assume this energy (that I still don't even think we can get to) has a specific purpose, and that you know exactly what this purpose is?
I read somewhere that a master is not the one with all the answers but the one with all the questions. Thanks for your great questions.
No problem. I'm no master, I'm simply here to learn.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 126 by pelican, posted 01-29-2008 8:23 PM pelican has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 131 by pelican, posted 02-22-2008 7:14 PM Stile has seen this message but not replied

  
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