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Author Topic:   How can you identify the word of God without critical assessment of God?
jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 31 of 41 (446307)
01-05-2008 3:31 PM
Reply to: Message 29 by sinequanon
01-05-2008 3:24 PM


Re: Critical assessment of God
That must be answered by those other than me. I can explain my beliefs and have done so often here and they are really off topic for this thread.
The topic is "How can you identify the word of God without critical assessment of God?" and I believe I outlined how that can be done in Message 17 and the alternate procedure in Message 15 which you deemed off topic.
Edited by jar, : No reason given.

Immigration has been a problem Since 1607!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 29 by sinequanon, posted 01-05-2008 3:24 PM sinequanon has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 32 by sinequanon, posted 01-05-2008 3:38 PM jar has replied

  
sinequanon
Member (Idle past 2864 days)
Posts: 331
Joined: 12-17-2007


Message 32 of 41 (446309)
01-05-2008 3:38 PM
Reply to: Message 31 by jar
01-05-2008 3:31 PM


Re: Critical assessment of God
No explanation required. A yes or no answer is fine. I would not deem this one word off topic.
In finding the word of God, did you critically assess God?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 31 by jar, posted 01-05-2008 3:31 PM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 33 by jar, posted 01-05-2008 3:40 PM sinequanon has not replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 33 of 41 (446311)
01-05-2008 3:40 PM
Reply to: Message 32 by sinequanon
01-05-2008 3:38 PM


Re: Critical assessment of God
Constantly.

Immigration has been a problem Since 1607!

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purpledawn
Member (Idle past 3457 days)
Posts: 4453
From: Indiana
Joined: 04-25-2004


Message 34 of 41 (446321)
01-05-2008 4:57 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by sinequanon
01-04-2008 3:12 PM


What is the Issue?
quote:
If something were presented as the word of God, and if you accept that you should not question the word of God, how could you determine whether or not it is indeed the word of God?
If Lumpy hands me a book and says it was written by George Washington, investigation into whether that book was written by George Washington has no reflection on George Washington himself. If I determine that that book is not written by George Washington, it doesn't reflect badly on George Washington, but on the person who presented it as written by George Washington.
IMO, people misunderstand who and what is being critically assessed. The person presenting the book is being assessed and the book itself. To not question what God said (which God hasn't said that we can't) one has to know that what is written is what God said.
Determining whether the book carries God's words has nothing to do with critically assessing God.
So yes you can critically assess a book to determine its origin without finding fault with God.
Better to follow the correct words, than to follow the wrong ones and look really stupid in God's eyes.
quote:
There may be prophets and there may be false prophets. There may be holy books and there may be false books. How can you tell them apart without critically assessing them using your fallible mortal understanding?
We're human, it's the only understanding we have. What other option is there? Again, critically assessing them has nothing to do with critically assessing God. They are just as fallible as any other human.
quote:
An example could be choosing between the Oahspe and the Bible as a religious works. Could your choice as to which one of them is God's word be based on anything other than mortal assessment?
The cannons were derived from religious leaders assessing the writings and deciding what represented their beliefs in God. It has nothing to do with assessing or doubting God.
Religious leaders decide what is or is not a religious work for their religion. Individuals just have to choose which religious leader or religion they trust to teach them truthfully about God.
We aren't critically assessing God, we are assessing other humans and what they present as being from God.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by sinequanon, posted 01-04-2008 3:12 PM sinequanon has replied

Replies to this message:
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sinequanon
Member (Idle past 2864 days)
Posts: 331
Joined: 12-17-2007


Message 35 of 41 (446324)
01-05-2008 5:09 PM
Reply to: Message 34 by purpledawn
01-05-2008 4:57 PM


Re: What is the Issue?
We aren't critically assessing God, we are assessing other humans and what they present as being from God.
I hear what you say, but I do not believe it is necessarily a case of either/or. It could be both. The OP happens to be asking about God.
Are you implying that, if you are satisfied with the human presenting the word of God, then you have identified the word of God?
Or are you implying that you cannot identify the word of God?

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 Message 34 by purpledawn, posted 01-05-2008 4:57 PM purpledawn has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 36 by purpledawn, posted 01-05-2008 5:58 PM sinequanon has replied

  
purpledawn
Member (Idle past 3457 days)
Posts: 4453
From: Indiana
Joined: 04-25-2004


Message 36 of 41 (446331)
01-05-2008 5:58 PM
Reply to: Message 35 by sinequanon
01-05-2008 5:09 PM


Re: What is the Issue?
How could it be both? How is one assessing God when authenticating a claim? Doubting that the words came from God is not the same as doubting God.
quote:
Are you implying that, if you are satisfied with the human presenting the word of God, then you have identified the word of God?
For some that is all that is needed.
quote:
Or are you implying that you cannot identify the word of God?
No
Please explain why you feel God is being critically assessed when humans authenticate a claim?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 35 by sinequanon, posted 01-05-2008 5:09 PM sinequanon has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 37 by sinequanon, posted 01-05-2008 6:48 PM purpledawn has replied

  
sinequanon
Member (Idle past 2864 days)
Posts: 331
Joined: 12-17-2007


Message 37 of 41 (446341)
01-05-2008 6:48 PM
Reply to: Message 36 by purpledawn
01-05-2008 5:58 PM


Re: What is the Issue?
How could it be both? How is one assessing God when authenticating a claim? Doubting that the words came from God is not the same as doubting God.
'It' is possible to BOTH assess God AND authenticate a claim. So, the fact that you are authenticating a claim does not imply you are not assessing God.
There is no assumption of any implication in the OP. It just asks the question.
For some that is all that is needed.
And for you, personally?
(Interestingly, you have done what nwr did in Message 23 and jar did in Message 24. I am starting to observe a certain pattern of coyness )

This message is a reply to:
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purpledawn
Member (Idle past 3457 days)
Posts: 4453
From: Indiana
Joined: 04-25-2004


Message 38 of 41 (446354)
01-05-2008 8:39 PM
Reply to: Message 37 by sinequanon
01-05-2008 6:48 PM


Re: What is the Issue?
quote:
'It' is possible to BOTH assess God AND authenticate a claim. So, the fact that you are authenticating a claim does not imply you are not assessing God.
It also doesn't imply that one is, so again, what is the issue?
quote:
And for you, personally?
(Interestingly, you have done what nwr did in Message 23 and jar did in Re: Critical assessment of God (Message 24). I am starting to observe a certain pattern of coyness )
This is a debate forum, not a personal encounter group. We debate the position not the person.
Please explain why you feel God is being critically assessed when humans authenticate a claim?

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 Message 37 by sinequanon, posted 01-05-2008 6:48 PM sinequanon has not replied

  
sinequanon
Member (Idle past 2864 days)
Posts: 331
Joined: 12-17-2007


Message 39 of 41 (447246)
01-08-2008 4:29 PM


I would like to hear from other people who "follow God's word".
So far, only jar has explained how he thinks it is possible without critical assessment of God.
He doesn't use this method himself. He is constantly critically assessing God.

Replies to this message:
 Message 40 by jar, posted 01-08-2008 4:33 PM sinequanon has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 40 of 41 (447247)
01-08-2008 4:33 PM
Reply to: Message 39 by sinequanon
01-08-2008 4:29 PM


Let's try to get things straight.
So far, only jar has explained how he thinks it is possible without critical assessment of God.
No, jar posted a method that can be used. There is no question of whether or not it is possible, the method I posted can be used.
Is there any point or substance to this thread?

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 39 by sinequanon, posted 01-08-2008 4:29 PM sinequanon has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 41 by sinequanon, posted 01-08-2008 4:52 PM jar has not replied

  
sinequanon
Member (Idle past 2864 days)
Posts: 331
Joined: 12-17-2007


Message 41 of 41 (447259)
01-08-2008 4:52 PM
Reply to: Message 40 by jar
01-08-2008 4:33 PM


Re: Let's try to get things straight.
Is there any point or substance to this thread?
Yes. I suspect people who respond will fall into two camps.
i) Those who critically assess God.
ii) Those who don't want to say.
It would be interesting to find someone who admits to have
iii) Found the word of God without critically assessing God.
(It could be they are all represented by ii))
No, jar posted a method that can be used. There is no question of whether or not it is possible, the method I posted can be used.
jar posted a method that can be used that may or may not be possible.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 40 by jar, posted 01-08-2008 4:33 PM jar has not replied

  
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