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Author Topic:   To John
Primordial Egg
Inactive Member


Message 16 of 24 (26730)
12-16-2002 9:43 AM
Reply to: Message 15 by funkmasterfreaky
12-16-2002 9:17 AM


Hi Funkster,
quote:
I see you have made reference to the teachings of Jesus Christ in this thread. Please forgive my ignorance of your faith, however I am led to believe that you deny the "Godhood" of Jesus. I am wondering how you do this considering Jesus claims openly to be the son of God. When he teaches the forgiveness of sin? Maybe this deserves a whole new thread. I hope I have not offended or misrepresented you here. As far as I know we worship the same God, Jehovah.
I'm sure delshad will respond better than I can, but Muslims believe that Jesus was a prophet and divine, but never claimed to be the Son of God, as Christians claim. A very important tenet of Islam is that God has no partners (you have to remember that the competing religions at the time in Arabia were largely polytheistic) , which includes sons, daughters etc. Islam flatly rejects the Trinity.
The reason that Muslims do not agree with everything in the Bible is because they believe it has been corrupted by men, and the true message distorted. The Koran, on the other hand, is the pure and uncorrupted work of the Creator.
Hope this helps.
PE
------------------
Skeptical scrutiny is the means, in both science and religion, by which deep thoughts can be winnowed from deep nonsense - Carl Sagan

This message is a reply to:
 Message 15 by funkmasterfreaky, posted 12-16-2002 9:17 AM funkmasterfreaky has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 17 by funkmasterfreaky, posted 12-16-2002 10:03 AM Primordial Egg has replied

  
funkmasterfreaky
Inactive Member


Message 17 of 24 (26735)
12-16-2002 10:03 AM
Reply to: Message 16 by Primordial Egg
12-16-2002 9:43 AM


quote:
I'm sure delshad will respond better than I can, but Muslims believe that Jesus was a prophet and divine, but never claimed to be the Son of God, as Christians claim.
Okay but the definition of "divine" is pretty open, the most re-accuring theme I got from the definition of this word was; emenating from God. Well by this definition even satan is divine.
Again delshad I plead ignorance, but in my faith Jesus Christ clearly makes claims to being the son of Jehovah. Yaweh.
quote:
The reason that Muslims do not agree with everything in the Bible is because they believe it has been corrupted by men, and the true message distorted. The Koran, on the other hand, is the pure and uncorrupted work of the Creator.
According to what I know of the scripture, the Lord promised also a great nation to the descendants of Ishmael, as well as to the descendants of Isaac.
------------------
Saved by an incredible Grace.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 16 by Primordial Egg, posted 12-16-2002 9:43 AM Primordial Egg has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 18 by Primordial Egg, posted 12-16-2002 10:45 AM funkmasterfreaky has not replied

  
Primordial Egg
Inactive Member


Message 18 of 24 (26745)
12-16-2002 10:45 AM
Reply to: Message 17 by funkmasterfreaky
12-16-2002 10:03 AM


quote:
Okay but the definition of "divine" is pretty open, the most re-accuring theme I got from the definition of this word was; emenating from God. Well by this definition even satan is divine.
You're right, it was an unfortunately ambiguous term to use (told you delshad would be better at this than me, I don't even believe in God!). To put Jesus in his Islamic context, muslims believe that Allah sent around 124,000 prophets to Earth from Adam to Muhammed, some of which you probably recognise from the OT - they could work miracles, speak to God, you know the stuff.
Five (I think) prophets are particularly favoured as they brought with them books from God - they were God's direct messengers. Abraham, Moses, Jesus and Muhammed - the last prophet, according to Allah (sorry can only remember 4 ). So Muslims believe that Jesus was sent by god and did many of the miracles as laid down in the Bible, and many (if not all) believe he'll be there at the Apocalypse, but that his message became mangled. This explains why there was such a concerted effort at around the time the Koran was written to ensure the accuracy and sanctity of the text.
quote:
Again delshad I plead ignorance, but in my faith Jesus Christ clearly makes claims to being the son of Jehovah. Yaweh.
Well this is interesting, your faith tells you that Jesus proclaimed himself the son of God, whereas delshad's (or any muslim's) faith would tell them the exact opposite. And neither of you were there!
I've always found it bizarre that people could have faith in historical events, without the supporting evidence. If I were to say: "I have faith that Hitler didn't start the Reichstag fire" then what exactly does that mean? I personally think its practical meaning is "I will live my life as if this were true". But if thats the case, you need to accept the possibility that you might be wrong.
quote:
According to what I know of the scripture, the Lord promised also a great nation to the descendants of Ishmael, as well as to the descendants of Isaac.
No argument from me there - don't know enough about it to be honest.
PE

This message is a reply to:
 Message 17 by funkmasterfreaky, posted 12-16-2002 10:03 AM funkmasterfreaky has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 19 by Delshad, posted 12-16-2002 11:35 AM Primordial Egg has replied

  
Delshad
Inactive Member


Message 19 of 24 (26755)
12-16-2002 11:35 AM
Reply to: Message 18 by Primordial Egg
12-16-2002 10:45 AM


Dear FunkyMasterFreaky
Your questions to me are very important and I`m afraid by answering all to hasty I`ll misrepresent my opinions.
But meanwhile the replies given to you by Primordial egg are quite substantial.
Ill try to answer your questions as I get the time.
Btw, hi Primordial, Long time no see !

This message is a reply to:
 Message 18 by Primordial Egg, posted 12-16-2002 10:45 AM Primordial Egg has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 20 by Primordial Egg, posted 12-16-2002 11:38 AM Delshad has replied

  
Primordial Egg
Inactive Member


Message 20 of 24 (26756)
12-16-2002 11:38 AM
Reply to: Message 19 by Delshad
12-16-2002 11:35 AM


Hi delshad,
Hope your blood-sugar's recovered after Ramadan!
Do you know who the fifth messenger was who carried a book /text from Allah? I could only remember four (was it Dauood?).
Or were there only four to begin with?
PE
edited to add: I've just checked and there were only four (not five) rasool, Abraham was't one of them, but Daood (David) was.
[This message has been edited by Primordial Egg, 12-16-2002]

This message is a reply to:
 Message 19 by Delshad, posted 12-16-2002 11:35 AM Delshad has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 22 by Delshad, posted 12-16-2002 12:58 PM Primordial Egg has not replied

  
John
Inactive Member


Message 21 of 24 (26762)
12-16-2002 12:09 PM
Reply to: Message 14 by Delshad
12-16-2002 5:10 AM


quote:
Originally posted by Delshad:
I have either mixed you up with someone else or perhaps you had just stated that sarcastically.
What I have said is that christianity, as I was talking in general, is evil though not in any literal way but as a reflection of the damage that I believe it has done over its history.
quote:
Well I got it from, ".....Is it that I didn`t reflect upon the advice.
This isn't what I said.
john writes:
Is it that I didn't take what (<< typo in the original post) your advise without reflecting upon it?
quote:
Im embarresed , once again,I apologize.
Hey don't beat yourself up about it. Am I correct that English is not your native tongue? If so, I sympathize. I've had to speak Spanish a lot lately and I am not good at it.
------------------
No webpage found at provided URL: www.hells-handmaiden.com

This message is a reply to:
 Message 14 by Delshad, posted 12-16-2002 5:10 AM Delshad has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 23 by Delshad, posted 12-16-2002 1:05 PM John has replied

  
Delshad
Inactive Member


Message 22 of 24 (26784)
12-16-2002 12:58 PM
Reply to: Message 20 by Primordial Egg
12-16-2002 11:38 AM


Hi primordial Egg
Yes its recovered, but I feel sorry for all the people whom due to financial situations never recover
Regarding your queston primordial, I honestly dont know.
I guess you in some ways are more familiar with islam than I am.
But I read about it as much as I get the time too, school work you know...
Sincerely Dilshad
[This message has been edited by Delshad, 12-17-2002]

This message is a reply to:
 Message 20 by Primordial Egg, posted 12-16-2002 11:38 AM Primordial Egg has not replied

  
Delshad
Inactive Member


Message 23 of 24 (26787)
12-16-2002 1:05 PM
Reply to: Message 21 by John
12-16-2002 12:09 PM


Yes, its not my native tongue.
I am kurdish and because Im a muslim I know arabic too, living in Sweden has added swedish and English to my list, and then the fact that i study Spanish makes them five altogether(Like my five pillars of faith)
But however, I can mix up the grammar sometimes .)
[This message has been edited by Delshad, 12-16-2002]

This message is a reply to:
 Message 21 by John, posted 12-16-2002 12:09 PM John has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 24 by John, posted 12-16-2002 2:15 PM Delshad has not replied

  
John
Inactive Member


Message 24 of 24 (26814)
12-16-2002 2:15 PM
Reply to: Message 23 by Delshad
12-16-2002 1:05 PM


quote:
Originally posted by Delshad:
Yes, its not my native tongue.
I am kurdish and because Im a muslim I know arabic too, living in Sweden has added swedish and English to my list, and then the fact that i study Spanish makes them five altogether(Like my five pillars of faith)
But however, I can mix up the grammar sometimes .)

Ok. So we are aware of the language issue. If you misunderstand, or I misunderstand, we'll just assume it has a lot to do with language. And it probably does.
Take care.
------------------
No webpage found at provided URL: www.hells-handmaiden.com

This message is a reply to:
 Message 23 by Delshad, posted 12-16-2002 1:05 PM Delshad has not replied

  
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