Register | Sign In


Understanding through Discussion


EvC Forum active members: 65 (9162 total)
3 online now:
Newest Member: popoi
Post Volume: Total: 915,819 Year: 3,076/9,624 Month: 921/1,588 Week: 104/223 Day: 2/13 Hour: 1/0


Thread  Details

Email This Thread
Newer Topic | Older Topic
  
Author Topic:   Question for Agnostics
Mike Holland
Member (Idle past 484 days)
Posts: 179
From: Sydney, NSW,Auistralia
Joined: 08-30-2002


Message 16 of 18 (49072)
08-07-2003 4:59 AM
Reply to: Message 15 by Mammuthus
08-07-2003 4:37 AM


Re: Don't knows, don't cares
Like Mammuthus, I agree with Mark. I think there are three different positions involved -
I don't know whether there is a God
I do not believe in God
There is no God.
I adopt the second position - an absense of belief. And I call myself an Atheist, but some may quibble about this.
The first and third statements both imply that there is some way of telling whether God exists or not, and as I have not yet heard of one, both statements are meaningless to me.
Mike.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 15 by Mammuthus, posted 08-07-2003 4:37 AM Mammuthus has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 17 by Quetzal, posted 08-07-2003 6:02 AM Mike Holland has not replied

  
Quetzal
Member (Idle past 5872 days)
Posts: 3228
Joined: 01-09-2002


Message 17 of 18 (49077)
08-07-2003 6:02 AM
Reply to: Message 16 by Mike Holland
08-07-2003 4:59 AM


Re: Don't knows, don't cares
Since we're playing semantics here, I suppose I'll punt my two cents in. My take is that whether you state "I am an atheist based on..." #2 or #3 depends more on at what personal confidence level you move from "pretty damn sure" to "virtual certainty". I mean, at what point is it absurd to state, "I can't be sure the sun will rise tomorrow but I think it probably will" rather than "The sun will rise tomorrow." Unless proven otherwise, of course. It may not be philosophically "pure" to state there is no god/God. But IMO I can have pretty damn high confidence in so stating. After all, believers have had literally thousands of years to provide evidence of the existence of a supernatural creator/entity. So far, no luck. I'm quite willing to be proven wrong. But in the interim, I'll go along stating that the sun WILL rise tomorrow.
"I quibble, therefore I am." attributed to Desjeux (Descartes little-known half brother).

This message is a reply to:
 Message 16 by Mike Holland, posted 08-07-2003 4:59 AM Mike Holland has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 18 by compmage, posted 08-07-2003 10:35 AM Quetzal has not replied

  
compmage
Member (Idle past 5153 days)
Posts: 601
From: South Africa
Joined: 08-04-2005


Message 18 of 18 (49106)
08-07-2003 10:35 AM
Reply to: Message 17 by Quetzal
08-07-2003 6:02 AM


Re: Don't knows, don't cares
Quetzal writes:
Since we're playing semantics here, I suppose I'll punt my two cents in.
And I would like to add mine as well.
Surfing the net earlier I came across the following quote. I am still busy considering it's implications but I thought I would post it here, maybe it will spark some good discussion.
In his book "Why Atheism?" (chapter 2), George H. Smith writes the following with regards to "positive" or "strong" atheism in relation to "negative" or "weak" atheism:
quote:
A good deal of the confusion about this issue is owing to the fact that positive atheism and negative atheism are answers to two different questions, namely, "Does God exist?" and "Do you believe in the existence of God?" The positive atheist says no to former question, whereas the negative atheist says no to the latter. And since Christians typically stress the need for belief as a precondition of salvation, most atheists within Christian cultures have defined themselves in negative terms, as people who do not believe in God. Properly considered, therefore, positive atheism is simply a possible justification for the nonbelief of negative atheism rather than a competing definition.
I obtained this quote from a secondary source and have not yet had the time to confirm its accuracy.
Any comments?
------------------
He hoped and prayed that there wasn't an afterlife. Then he realized there was a contradiction involved here and merely hoped that there wasn't an afterlife.
- Douglas Adams, The Hitch Hiker's Guide to the Galaxy

This message is a reply to:
 Message 17 by Quetzal, posted 08-07-2003 6:02 AM Quetzal has not replied

  
Newer Topic | Older Topic
Jump to:


Copyright 2001-2023 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved

™ Version 4.2
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2024