Who can be saved? A Christian perspective

See Message 375.

and This is a parable of things at the end of time. In either case they would either have helped others or ignored them but in neither case would they have understood the connection between Christ and the person they did or didn't help.Let's try this. A fellow comes up and says thanks for the help. As he is a stranger I say to him that this is the first time I've met him and ask when did I help him. He then goes on to tell me that I helped his wife change a tire yesterday and so he didn't have to leave the hockey game he was watching on TV.I didn't make the connection between him and his wife just as neither the sheep nor the goats made the connection between those they did or didn't help and Jesus.Here is jar's statement.

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I imagine that all of the Goats will be Christians.

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IMHO there is no justification for that claim. The text tells us nothing about the beliefs of the sheep or goats as far as doctrine is concerned.

How does any group claim to know who is saved, what saved means and how can they prove this?I say:Those who have no proof make sure their proof is far away.

Not making the connection is only part of it. The other, more important to the point, part of it is how you would respond to the person. In this case, you said "when did I help him" because he was a stranger. This is how the sheep responded. A follower of Christ wouldn't respond that way because he was no stranger and they presumably had helped him.Now, Let's try this. A fellow good friend comes up and says thanks for the help never helping. As he is a fellow good friend I say to him that this is the first time I've met him we're together often and ask when did I NOT help him. He then goes on to tell me that I didn't help his wife change a tire yesterday.This is how the goats responded. It makes them look like they must have been a good friend of Jesus' when they question about when they did not help. A stranger wouldn't question that. It is consistant with the story, but I think he's extrapolated a little to far. The crowd as a whole doesn't speak for every individual, and there could be non-christians in there kicking dirt and keeping their mouths shut.

Hi CSBut when you go back to the beginning in Matthew 25 it says:

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32"All the nations will be gathered before Him; and He will separate them from one another, as the shepherd separates the sheep from the goats ;33and He will put the sheep on His right, and the goats on the left.

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Everyone is there including all Christians and all non-Christians. They are divided into the two groups based on how they responded to those in need. Jar is suggesting he knows who is going to be in each group based on whether or not they are Christian. It just isn't in this passage as far as I'm concerned.I agree that we can know Jesus but it isn't the same as knowing my wife for example. I suggest that for at least the majority of Christians they would be surprised to have Jesus tell them that when they helped the homeless that it was Him they were helping. A Christian might understand the concept but I don't think we think of it that directly.

No, you've misunderstood. The suggestion is to know what kind of people are going to be in the group, based on whether they are sheep of goats.All goats being christian does not imply all christians being goats. There can still be some christians who are sheep even if all the goats are christians.

This is all a matter of belief. I maintain that God saves based on His grace and nothing more. This whole idea of following some code of honor is a doctrine from hell. Not to say we shouldn't try and do our best...but we fall short.All we can do is try again the next day and repent if we feel convicted.

Not at all. The division is based on individual behavior.What I am saying is that IMHO most Christians simply don't get Jesus message at all. You even support that concept when you post "I suggest that for at least the majority of Christians they would be surprised to have Jesus tell them that when they helped the homeless that it was Him they were helping. A Christian might understand the concept but I don't think we think of it that directly."The Goats in the story are shocked. The people that heard the Good Samaritan story are shocked. The elders in the synagogue in Nazareth that heard Jesus preach are shocked.The point in all three stories is that no one has a clue who will be saved, and the judgement will be based on how you behaved, not what club you are a member of, not whether or not you are a follower of Jesus or even a follower of Yahweh.As my Mommy used to say, "It ain't what you say that counts, it's what you do."It really is that simple.

Any God that judges me on how I behave is unworthy of my worship, since it was He who set my behavior up to begin with.

But the passage says "all nations". It includes everyone. If all goats are Christians then that requires all non-Christains to be sheep. It just isn't there.

I imagine that almost all non-Christians will be Sheep, though I'm sure there will be a few that are also Goats.AbE:In the story though, all the Goats are followers of Jesus.Edited by jar, : see AbE:

It's easy to delegate your guilt to someone else, isn't it?

To a large degree I agree and it is what I've been trying to say all along.From that quote you say; "The point in all three stories is that no one has a clue who will be saved". I agree, however You have repeatedly said that you know that all the goats are Christians.I don't think it is based on what we do. I contend it is based more on what we feel.I was brought up surrounded by love. There are many, maybe even most that don't have that incredible gift. It is easier for me to do loving things than someone who doesn't have the benefits that I have had. Still even those who don't have that gift of a loving upbringing and behave badly, for lack of a better term, can still at their core desire goodness.As far as being a Christian is concerned I do believe that if we truly accept Jesus/God as Lord and prayerfully commit ourselves to following His rule of love, that the Holy Spirit will gradually guide us towards a life of forgiveness, kindness, justice and love. That doesn't mean that Christians who actually have made a heart, as opposed to an intellectual, commitment to the Lord are any more loving than anyone else, they should just be more loving than they had been.I’ll leave it to God to bring perfect justice to all in the end. I’m not about to pre-judge.

Yes, but then they're seperated.

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32And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats:

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33And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left.

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Are you taking that to mean that the nations were seperated from other nations, but the nations as a whole were kept together? And that's why you can't split up the group of christians into some being sheep and some being goats? Yeah, I don't particularly agree with every single goat being a christian.

In reality that is likely, but not in the story.