Summations Only

And yet in a couple decades now you have never been able to explain what that even means.And it also has nothing to do with the topic which is "The Meaning Of The Trinity" or provide any counter evidence or reasoned argument to refute what I have posted.The Trinity in Christianity is called the Great Mystery because, quite honestly, it makes no sense. It is based on almost no Biblical support. It cannot rationally be explained. But it is an article of belief that was created primarily as a political tool to exclude certain power groups and bases.The concept of the "Trinity" was created as a political tool during a struggle between opposing Chapters of Early Proto-Christianity. It's meaning was that one group were REAL Christians while the other was excluded from the power and control hierarchy. It was successful and so became a touchstone for defining who was politically in power and who was not.

As a Christian, do you in any way believe that Jesus is real?(Perhaps, as ringo believed, through His message...as an abstract idea? Why would I want to counter what you have posted? Are we not on the same team? This isn't a giant football game between TEAM Evidence starring logic, reason, and reality in the backfield vs TEAM Creator featuring The Father, Son, and Holy Spirit! Or is it?

Early Christianity avoided politics, according to the wisdom of its Jewish founder. Render unto Caesar what is Caesars...and all that.
Was it Saul/Paul who dragged the growing church into politics? Or was it later...when the five cities became a split in 1066?

How many cults are we talking here? I know I am in one.

There's nothing manipulative about believers defining the theology of their religion.The point of the Weinberg quote is that religions can cause people to ignore their own inner moral sense and do evil that they would have not otherwise committed. That is why it scares me when Christians push for objective moralities that are based on religious teachings because it leads people to replace morality with obedience.

Both Madison Avenue and the CCP propaganda from China also promote fantasy over reality. Perhaps what angers you is the bastardization of rational, critical thought. And I'm with you on that one until we get to my belief in an irrational concept of a supernatural spiritual realm. Perhaps I should kill some babies or pagans and just shake it all off. If I get really bored I could go kill other Christians. So much on my plate!(I know! Lets help kill some Russians! We can blame Putin and they are just useless atheists anyway! )

That is bad enough, to be sure. But it's not the stupid that hurts so much but what you and your brethren do with that stupid. You justify torture, war and death.

Nonsense Phat. Don't you know anything at all about Christian history? You can't get any earlier into Christianity than Peter & Paul and all of the other early Chapters.Again though, can you at least try to address the topic? What does that even mean? You never seem to answer that. And why would it even matter?

Sorry but I do not understand the reference.

A Memorable History of England, Comprising All the Parts You Can Remember, Including 103 Good Things, 5 Bad Kings and 2 Genuine Dates.But it does make far more sense than the Trinity.

The problems I see include groupthink and crowd behavior versus critical thinking and taking responsibility for what one does rather than simply march to the drummer of the group/church/political party. And of course I am as guilty of this as anyone, and it is only recently (with the help of stable blood sugars) that I have even wanted to address it. Although one could argue that secular progressives are also prone to groupthink. They seemingly push for moralities based on political ideologies. Any group of people who have similar beliefs exhibit varying degrees of (im thinking of the proper term) herd mentality and/or group think. This is the underlying mechanisms of political and ideological division in this country.

Here you go...shoving and framing the argument into jars box. Quit calling my character into question and then proclaiming what I *should* be thinking. And yes, I know more than I knew ten years ago about church history though I have my own sources and ideas. I never attended your liberal boarding school with Socratic teachers who told me to throw everything I had been taught away. I am a product of my upbringing and habit. Part of my habit is arguing with the peanut gallery. Well no duh. I brought Paul up only because one of your pet arguments is that Paul started a new religion. Thats another topic, though. You asserted that the meaning of the Trinity was all about politics. I believe that it had to do more with early beliefs stated by some of the founders (aside from Jesus) of Christianity and Christian thought. It seems to me, based on my limited knowledge of History, that the political divisions which you talked about between competing "clubs" of Christianity came to a head in 1066.I will agree with you that the concept of the Trinity was used as a political talking point by one "side" or club versus another. I will also agree that the church (proper) was divided ideologically and politically. I only asked you where you stood as a Christian because having some insight into your own personal ideology would shed light into how you personally view the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. Because unlike you, I would prefer to be taught by someone who knows who Jesus iss...not who He was as a character in a book...not who such and such a church writes that He is...not as some atheist noob with a bad agenda seeks to define Him as...and certainly not as a bunch of Socratic secular humanist teachers who prefer Comparative
Religions over Club:Christian try and shove into my brain. They were probably the ones who initially taught you to "throw Him away". You never ask the right questions. If you were a Socratic teacher (which you may well have become) you would be challenging what I think and telling...urging...demanding that I think. And perhaps the issue is that no conservative church would even let such a character in the door. Hence my earlier comment to Taq regarding Groupthink and Herd mentality.Its not what The Trinity© stands for politically. Its what Christians think it means. (and there is no consensus)

Theodoric:

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Sorry but I do not understand the reference.

when the five cities became a split in 1066?

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To be honest, I got that from a pamphlet put out by an Eastern Orthodox Church defending their legitimacy of being the True Church as much as the Roman Catholic Church.(This was twenty years ago) They taught me (the pamphlet did at least) that initially there were five cities where the governing Apostles/Officials resided.
IIRC (from memory) the cities were Rome, Antioch,Jerusalem, and...I forget the other two. Perhaps Damacus and Cairo? I never really fact checked that pamphlet! Their point is/was that Rome alone broke off from the other four cities and hence the 1066 split. Being a History guy, perhaps you can enlighten me as to the real causes of the 1066 split.
I know that long before the actual split there were divisions within the church proper. And while we are on the topic of what I have learned about church history, I got most of what I know from reading Church History In Plain Language by Bruce L. Shelley.

LOLThink about that sentence Phat. "Its what Christians think it means. (and there is no consensus)"There is no consensus because it really has no meaning other than as a slogan to define who is in and who is out.That's politics.

I perused the comments from some who have read the book over at Goodreads. I can see why you and Theo would enjoy such a book. It pokes fun at human attempts to mae everything "official" all for the Great Power in which they reside. I might actually read the book if I get time, but its no authoritative History Book except to reinforce one of your entrenched beliefs that humans created religion. My world view is a bit different. One Human (God Incarnate) passed His wisdom and presence down throughout History where the actual intent was and is being increasingly diluted by fallible men. Were I to have learned what you and Theo have learned, I too would literally throw God away. Thank God I didn't.