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Author Topic:   The Meaning Of The Trinity
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 1156 of 1864 (906096)
02-07-2023 9:55 AM
Reply to: Message 1155 by candle2
02-06-2023 5:28 PM


Re: The Limitations Of Good And Evil Behaviors
candle2 writes:
Phat stated that you understood the Bible, and compared
to him, he could be right.
Both ringo and I understand the Bible better than you do. You are just a parrot for your church. [/rant] Everything you say and preach is what they taught you to say and preach.

The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” - Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You (1894).
When both religious and non-religious people reach the same conclusions then you know religion isn't the reason.--Percy
Democrats should not be the only party. Respect the two-party system. -Phat, in December 2022
We see Monsters where Science shows us Windmills.~Phat, remixed

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1155 by candle2, posted 02-06-2023 5:28 PM candle2 has not replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 1157 of 1864 (906098)
02-07-2023 9:58 AM
Reply to: Message 1153 by ringo
02-02-2023 11:32 AM


Re: Making Sense Of Sense
ringo writes:
Mere existence is not a very impressive feat.
It is if you happen to be God. You would likely argue with Him, though...telling Him He was slacking on the job!

The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” - Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You (1894).
When both religious and non-religious people reach the same conclusions then you know religion isn't the reason.--Percy
Democrats should not be the only party. Respect the two-party system. -Phat, in December 2022
We see Monsters where Science shows us Windmills.~Phat, remixed

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1153 by ringo, posted 02-02-2023 11:32 AM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1158 by Theodoric, posted 02-07-2023 10:32 AM Phat has seen this message but not replied
 Message 1160 by ringo, posted 02-07-2023 12:09 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied
 Message 1161 by Taq, posted 02-07-2023 1:42 PM Phat has replied

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 9076
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 3.7


Message 1158 of 1864 (906104)
02-07-2023 10:32 AM
Reply to: Message 1157 by Phat
02-07-2023 9:58 AM


Re: Making Sense Of Sense
It is if you happen to be God.
Why? I thought he was omnipotent, omniscient and omnipresent. But mere existence is some sort of feat?

What can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence. -Christopher Hitchens

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1157 by Phat, posted 02-07-2023 9:58 AM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


(2)
Message 1159 of 1864 (906127)
02-07-2023 12:06 PM
Reply to: Message 1155 by candle2
02-06-2023 5:28 PM


Re: The Limitations Of Good And Evil Behaviors
candle2 writes:
Ringo, you have no idea what the Bible says about death.
You have no idea what I know.
candle2 writes:
You do not fully understand what death is.
You're confusing what I know with your opinions. All I know about your opinions is what you post here. I point out where what you post is wrong.
candle2 writes:
You lack the courage of your conviction.
What conviction would that be? I haven't told you about any convictions.
candle2 writes:
Phat stated that you understood the Bible, and compared
to him, he could be right.
The punchline to one of my favorite jokes: I don't have to run faster than the bear. I only have to run faster than you.
People can decide for themselves whether I'm ahead of Phat. And they can decide for themselves whether I'm ahead of you.
You and Phat both like to blow your own horns. (Maybe you should be in the band instead of on the track team.) I'll just let people decide from my posts how smart or stupid I am.
candle2 writes:
But, if someone lacks the understanding of all that death
constitutes, how in the world can they claim to
understand anything the Bible says?
I don't claim to "understand" what the Bible says. I claim to be able to read what the Bible says. A lot of people, like Phat and you, try to tell me it doesn't say what it says. For many believers, "understanding" the Bible means juggling it.
candle2 writes:
I doubt that you will have the courage to state your
conviction of the state of the dead.
I don't have any "conviction" about the dead, so it doesn't require any courage: The dead are dead. It's a different set of chemical reactions. The life reactions are sustainable as long as there is input of food, oxygen, etc. The death reactions are sustainable as long as the once-alive chemicals last. (They are usually eaten by other living things.) After that, they tend to become just non-living chemicals.
candle2 writes:
Most likely you will reply with some ridiculous comment
about you having a cousin named Murray.
I do. He's a farmer. He says that farmers that don't return chemicals to the land are just mining the soil.
I'm trying to be interesting because you're not.
candle2 writes:
Or that Hitler loved his dog.
He did. He was also a vegetarian - but that wasn't his biggest fault.
candle2 writes:
Or that 80-proof liquor is 40% alcohol.
And guess what? The other 60% is something else. (I hope I'm not too far over your head with the math.)
So... are you going to actually discuss the Bible? Or are you just going to be my straight-man? I can go either way.

Come all of you cowboys all over this land,
I'll teach you the law of the Ranger's Command:
To hold a six shooter, and never to run
As long as there's bullets in both of your guns.
-- Woody Guthrie

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1155 by candle2, posted 02-06-2023 5:28 PM candle2 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1162 by Phat, posted 02-07-2023 2:06 PM ringo has replied
 Message 1171 by candle2, posted 02-08-2023 2:55 PM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


(4)
Message 1160 of 1864 (906128)
02-07-2023 12:09 PM
Reply to: Message 1157 by Phat
02-07-2023 9:58 AM


Re: Making Sense Of Sense
Phat writes:
You would likely argue with Him, though...telling Him He was slacking on the job!
I'd fire him.
If I employ somebody whose resume includes omnipotence, I expect a lot.

Come all of you cowboys all over this land,
I'll teach you the law of the Ranger's Command:
To hold a six shooter, and never to run
As long as there's bullets in both of your guns.
-- Woody Guthrie

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1157 by Phat, posted 02-07-2023 9:58 AM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
Taq
Member
Posts: 9973
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 5.7


(1)
Message 1161 of 1864 (906136)
02-07-2023 1:42 PM
Reply to: Message 1157 by Phat
02-07-2023 9:58 AM


Re: Making Sense Of Sense
Phat writes:
You would likely argue with Him, though...telling Him He was slacking on the job!
Hospitals full of children with cancer would be rather obvious evidence of sleeping on the job.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1157 by Phat, posted 02-07-2023 9:58 AM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1163 by Phat, posted 02-07-2023 2:09 PM Taq has replied
 Message 1165 by AZPaul3, posted 02-07-2023 5:25 PM Taq has not replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 1162 of 1864 (906137)
02-07-2023 2:06 PM
Reply to: Message 1159 by ringo
02-07-2023 12:06 PM


Burning The Candle At Both Ends
ringo, addressing Candle writes:
I claim to be able to read what the Bible says. A lot of people, like Phat and you, try to tell me it doesn't say what it says. For many believers, "understanding" the Bible means juggling it.
True, though for at least *some* believers, the words have less precise meaning than does the messenger Himself. You will accuse us of making up the messenger as we go, but the fact is, we believe we have a relationship with the messenger *in* the book above and beyond the book itself. I dunno...call me crazy.
So... are you going to actually discuss the Bible? Or are you just going to be my straight-man?
If we can provide comedy to the peanut gallery while you bust my balls about morality, I'm all in.

The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” - Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You (1894).
When both religious and non-religious people reach the same conclusions then you know religion isn't the reason.--Percy
Democrats should not be the only party. Respect the two-party system. -Phat, in December 2022
We see Monsters where Science shows us Windmills.~Phat, remixed

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1159 by ringo, posted 02-07-2023 12:06 PM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1166 by Taq, posted 02-07-2023 5:29 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied
 Message 1172 by candle2, posted 02-09-2023 9:28 AM Phat has seen this message but not replied
 Message 1173 by ringo, posted 02-09-2023 11:54 AM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 1163 of 1864 (906138)
02-07-2023 2:09 PM
Reply to: Message 1161 by Taq
02-07-2023 1:42 PM


Re: Making Sense Of Sense
Thats assuming that you can even define His job. He may have a more intricate job "description" than your mind can fathom. Perhaps He wants *you* to give it all up and help those kids yourself.

The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” - Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You (1894).
When both religious and non-religious people reach the same conclusions then you know religion isn't the reason.--Percy
Democrats should not be the only party. Respect the two-party system. -Phat, in December 2022
We see Monsters where Science shows us Windmills.~Phat, remixed

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1161 by Taq, posted 02-07-2023 1:42 PM Taq has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1164 by Taq, posted 02-07-2023 5:24 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
Taq
Member
Posts: 9973
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 5.7


(2)
Message 1164 of 1864 (906141)
02-07-2023 5:24 PM
Reply to: Message 1163 by Phat
02-07-2023 2:09 PM


Re: Making Sense Of Sense
Phat writes:
Thats assuming that you can even define His job.
From all appearances, his job is "doesn't exist".
He may have a more intricate job "description" than your mind can fathom. Perhaps He wants *you* to give it all up and help those kids yourself.
Yet again, that is indistinguishable from a deity that doesn't exist.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1163 by Phat, posted 02-07-2023 2:09 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 8513
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 5.3


(1)
Message 1165 of 1864 (906142)
02-07-2023 5:25 PM
Reply to: Message 1161 by Taq
02-07-2023 1:42 PM


Re: Making Sense Of Sense
Hospitals full of children with cancer would be rather obvious evidence of sleeping on the job.
Sounds like willful neglect, not sleeping.

Stop Tzar Vladimir the Condemned!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1161 by Taq, posted 02-07-2023 1:42 PM Taq has not replied

  
Taq
Member
Posts: 9973
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 5.7


(5)
Message 1166 of 1864 (906143)
02-07-2023 5:29 PM
Reply to: Message 1162 by Phat
02-07-2023 2:06 PM


Re: Burning The Candle At Both Ends
Phat writes:
True, though for at least *some* believers, the words have less precise meaning than does the messenger Himself. You will accuse us of making up the messenger as we go, but the fact is, we believe we have a relationship with the messenger *in* the book above and beyond the book itself. I dunno...call me crazy.
If someone told me that they were in a relationship yet the only thing they could tell me about this person was from their biography I would say they were crazy. That's not a relationship. Of course, this is what we would expect to see if the messenger were invented as was the biography.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1162 by Phat, posted 02-07-2023 2:06 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
candle2
Member
Posts: 827
Joined: 12-31-2018
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 1167 of 1864 (906163)
02-08-2023 11:13 AM
Reply to: Message 1149 by ringo
02-02-2023 11:03 AM


Re: The Limitations Of Good And Evil Behaviors
Ringo, you do not fully understand how the word
agnostic has evolved over the years.
When the King James Version was written the word
"replinish," as in replenish the earth, did not mean to
restock.
Check out an older dictionary.
It wasn't even listed as a secondary meaning.
Replenish as defined in current dictionaries is now
defined as to restock. The change in definitions
occurred gradually.
The Cambridge English Dictionary now defines a woman
as someone who identifies as a woman, even if that
person was said to have a different sex at birth.
I have attended several classes where those who
identified themselves as agnostics viewed themselves
as such based on differing reasons.
These included:
Belief in God, but can't prove it.
Don't know if I believe in God or not.
Inclined to believe in God, but don't want to--He is
cruel and unapproachable.
There is no way to know whether He exists or not.
Many evolutionists identify with the third deffinition.
Christopher Hitchens believed in the existence of God.
He just believed that God was cruel and uncaring.
He hated God with a passion that burned red hot.
The poor man did his best to turn people away from God.
He devoted his life to Satan's cause, whether he
consciously knew this or not.
He had a completely wrong idea about who God is
and what God is doing.
These churches that teach humans will burn in hell
forever paint a wrong image of God. And they cause
people to hate God.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1149 by ringo, posted 02-02-2023 11:03 AM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1170 by AZPaul3, posted 02-08-2023 12:31 PM candle2 has not replied
 Message 1174 by ringo, posted 02-09-2023 12:06 PM candle2 has replied
 Message 1176 by GDR, posted 02-09-2023 12:28 PM candle2 has not replied

  
candle2
Member
Posts: 827
Joined: 12-31-2018
Member Rating: 1.1


(1)
Message 1168 of 1864 (906168)
02-08-2023 11:31 AM
Reply to: Message 1151 by ringo
02-02-2023 11:23 AM


Re: The Limitations Of Good And Evil Behaviors
Ringo, if you read my post to Tangle, you would read
where I was pressed for time. I was texting in a hurray.
In doing so I wrongly spelled agregious instead of
egregious.
But, glad that you pointed it out to me in a helpful
manner, instead of doing so egregiously.
Adam did not have access to God's Holy Spirit. Without
God's Holy Spirit it is impossible to develop Godly
character.
The israelites escaping Egypt saw miracles that would
stagger the imagination, but they still complained and
rebelled.
Why?
Except for Moses and perhaps one or two more, they
did not have access to God's Holy Spirit.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1151 by ringo, posted 02-02-2023 11:23 AM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1169 by Phat, posted 02-08-2023 11:34 AM candle2 has replied
 Message 1175 by ringo, posted 02-09-2023 12:18 PM candle2 has not replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 1169 of 1864 (906170)
02-08-2023 11:34 AM
Reply to: Message 1168 by candle2
02-08-2023 11:31 AM


Re: The Limitations Of Good And Evil Behaviors
candle2 writes:
Without
God's Holy Spirit it is impossible to develop Godly
character.
Even with Gods Holy Spirit we can be selfish assholes at times. Or egotistical ones who claim to be Saints! It is unwise to continually grieve the Spirit.
Critics will ask how would we ever know whether we had the Spirit or not. Which is a valid question.

The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” - Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You (1894).
When both religious and non-religious people reach the same conclusions then you know religion isn't the reason.--Percy
Democrats should not be the only party. Respect the two-party system. -Phat, in December 2022
We see Monsters where Science shows us Windmills.~Phat, remixed

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1168 by candle2, posted 02-08-2023 11:31 AM candle2 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1178 by candle2, posted 02-09-2023 12:37 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 8513
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 5.3


(1)
Message 1170 of 1864 (906188)
02-08-2023 12:31 PM
Reply to: Message 1167 by candle2
02-08-2023 11:13 AM


Re: The Limitations Of Good And Evil Behaviors
Christopher Hitchens believed in the existence of God.
He just believed that God was cruel and uncaring.
We can see this as an example of the extent of your research and prep in your posts.
You lie about Hitchens. Bad lie. Known lie. Provable lie.
As with most of the drivel you have posted, the accuracy and legitimacy of your statement is known to be bogus.

Stop Tzar Vladimir the Condemned!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1167 by candle2, posted 02-08-2023 11:13 AM candle2 has not replied

  
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