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Author Topic:   The Meaning Of The Trinity
Phat
Member
Posts: 17035
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.0


Message 1081 of 1147 (905357)
01-24-2023 3:00 PM
Reply to: Message 1075 by candle2
01-23-2023 12:21 PM


Re: The Limitations Of Good And Evil Behaviors
He does have a point, Candle.

The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” - Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You (1894).
When both religious and non-religious people reach the same conclusions then you know religion isn't the reason.--Percy
Democrats should not be the only party. Respect the two-party system. -Phat, in December 2022
We see Monsters where Science shows us Windmills.~Phat, remixed

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1075 by candle2, posted 01-23-2023 12:21 PM candle2 has not replied

  
candle2
Member
Posts: 316
Joined: 12-31-2018


Message 1082 of 1147 (905379)
01-25-2023 10:03 AM
Reply to: Message 1080 by GDR
01-23-2023 4:49 PM


Re: The Limitations Of Good And Evil Behaviors
GDR, Plato, as well as many other nations, both ancient
and modern, believe that the soul is an immortal entity.
The vast majority of Christian churches believe this
same concept.
The Apostles, as well as God's true church, does not
believe this, because it is not Biblical.
In the OT the Word "soul" comes from the Hebrew
nephesh. It refers to a breathing animal.
Notice in Genesis 2:7 that Adam became a breathing
soul after God breathed the breath of life into him.
Before God breathed life into the soul (Adam) it (soul)
had neither consciousness nor awareness.
The creatures in Acts1:21, 24; 2:19 and 9:10, 12,15, 16,
as well as numerous other places are from "nephesh",
a soul.
Ezekiel 18:4, 20 states very clearly that the soul can
indeed die.
In Matthew 16:25-26 the Greek word for soul (psuche)
is used for both life and soul.
25 "For whosoever will save his life shall lose it: and
whosoever will lose his life for my sake shall find it."
26. "For what is a man profited, if he should gain the
whole world, and lose his own soul (life)? Or what shall
a man give in exchange for his soul (life)."
I am going to finish this, but it will have to wait for an
hour or so.
Two of the workers at the animal shelter where I
volunteer are sick. I must go check on the welfare of
several horses. Someone called and reported them as
being neglected.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1080 by GDR, posted 01-23-2023 4:49 PM GDR has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1086 by Phat, posted 01-26-2023 11:58 AM candle2 has replied

  
candle2
Member
Posts: 316
Joined: 12-31-2018


Message 1083 of 1147 (905385)
01-25-2023 11:21 AM
Reply to: Message 1080 by GDR
01-23-2023 4:49 PM


Re: The Limitations Of Good And Evil Behaviors
GDR, most of the world believes that when we die we
live on in another form or substance. The vast majority
of Christian churches also teach this.
They teach that we are still conscious after death. Most
of them teach that only our physical body dies.
The men who wrote the Holy Bible record a completely
different perspective.
Very carefully read Job 14:10-15; Psalms 146: 3-4;
Ecclesiastical 9:4-6, 10, as well as numerous other
passages.
What these passages prove to us is that when an
individual dies his very thoughts perish.
They show us that they have no consciousness; that
the living know they will die but the dead no nothing.
When we die our wisdom and knowledge perishes. We
can longer devise, plan, or scheme.
Job asks God to appoint him a set time and remember
him.
Job states that he would wait his appointed time in the
grave until his change came. His change will occur at
the first resurrection when he would be raised with a
spirit body as a born again son of God. A member of
the God family.
King David was a man after God's on heart. He is
mentioned more times in the Bible than anyone, even
Abraham and Moses.
Peter tells us in Acts 2: 29, 34 that David is still dead
and buried, and that He has not ascended to heaven.
Read Hebrews 11, the faith chapter. Notice that all these
great men of faith died without receiving the promise.
That promise was/is eternal life. But they will receive
this promise at the first resurrection.
Jesus said that no man had ascended to heaven. John 3:13.
Pagans teach that everyone lives on after death.
The Holy Bible doesn't.
The Bible teaches only Christ can bring us back to
consciousness.
The owner of the horses is on his way home. I will show
that members of the God family will receive a spiritual
body, just like their heavenly father.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1080 by GDR, posted 01-23-2023 4:49 PM GDR has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1085 by GDR, posted 01-25-2023 8:32 PM candle2 has replied

  
candle2
Member
Posts: 316
Joined: 12-31-2018


Message 1084 of 1147 (905389)
01-25-2023 2:01 PM
Reply to: Message 1080 by GDR
01-23-2023 4:49 PM


Re: The Limitations Of Good And Evil Behaviors
GDR, take a look at Exodus 33:18-23. Moses was allow
to see Jesus in all His glory. But, he was only allowed to
see the backside of Him.
One could not even look on His face because he would
die.
The prophet Daniel was allowed to see the angel Gabriel
in his spiritual body. Daniel 10; 6.
Daniel describes him as having a body like beryl; face as
the appearance of lightning; eyes as lamps of fire; arms
and feet like polished brass; and, a voice as a multitude.
The Apostle Paul states those who become members of
the God family will judge (rule over them) angels. 1 Cor.
6:3-5.
Romans 8:17 states that we will be joint-heirs with Christ.
That we will be glorified together.
As Christ is so shall we be.
Read the rest of this chapter, especially vs. 29.
All who become members of the God family will then
conform to the image of Christ. We will conform to the
spiritual image of Chrict.
2 Peter 1:4 states that we will be partakers of God's
devine nature.
Philippians 3:21 tells us that Christ will change our vile
body, that it may be fashioned like unto His glorious
body.
As sons of God we will inherit all things. The entire
universe will be at our disposal.
We will then set about beautifying the entire universe.
God's occupation is that of a Creator. And so will we be.
There is now more than 200 galaxies for every human
who has ever lived. This is a very conservative estimate.
Each member of the God family will have countless angels
under them to assist them with their work.
As members of the God family we will have dominion
over all things.
In Psalms 147:4 God knows the numbers of stars, and He
calls all the stars in the universe by name.
In order for us to exercise dominion we must have a
spiritual body in order to withstand the raging thermo-
nuclear furnaces of more than 60 billion trillion sun's
and every subatomic particle of every atom in the
universe.
There's much more than this but this is all I have the time
for.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1080 by GDR, posted 01-23-2023 4:49 PM GDR has not replied

  
GDR
Member
Posts: 5920
From: Sidney, BC, Canada
Joined: 05-22-2005
Member Rating: 1.3


Message 1085 of 1147 (905397)
01-25-2023 8:32 PM
Reply to: Message 1083 by candle2
01-25-2023 11:21 AM


Re: The Limitations Of Good And Evil Behaviors
candle2 writes:
GDR, most of the world believes that when we die we
live on in another form or substance. The vast majority
of Christian churches also teach this.
They teach that we are still conscious after death. Most
of them teach that only our physical body dies.
The Biblical message is we are renewed bodily.
YOu are reading something into your quotations that just isn't there.
Here is a verse that is consistent with the NT covenant.
Paul writes this in his first letter to the Corinthians. Chap 1:10.
quote:
to be put into effect when the times reach their fulfillment—to bring unity to all things in heaven and on earth under Christ.
"All things in heaven and earth" That includes all things on earth. Revelation talks of the New jerusalem aoming to Earth and we are taught to pray "Your Kingdom come on Earth as in Heaven.
All through the NT there is talk of the resurrection of the dead, which of course begs the question of what is resurrection. That's easy to answewr. We jusy look at the resurrection of Jesus in a physical body that was like but also unlike His body prior to His death on the cross.
A bigger point is that in many ways it doesn't matter. What happends next is God's business. We are called to live Christ like lives based on God's love for us in this life. I suggest that it is a good idea to let God worry about the next one and just get on with loving our neighbour.

He has told you, O man, what is good ; And what does the LORD require of you But to do justice, to love kindness, And to walk humbly with your God.

Micah 6:8


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1083 by candle2, posted 01-25-2023 11:21 AM candle2 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1087 by candle2, posted 01-26-2023 12:47 PM GDR has replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 17035
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.0


Message 1086 of 1147 (905423)
01-26-2023 11:58 AM
Reply to: Message 1082 by candle2
01-25-2023 10:03 AM


Re: The Limitations Of Good And Evil Behaviors
candle writes:
GDR, Plato, as well as many other nations, both ancient
and modern, believe that the soul is an immortal entity.

The vast majority of Christian churches believe this
same concept.

The Apostles, as well as God's true church, does not
believe this, because it is not Biblical.
Remind us again of which church is Gods "true church".
It wouldnt happen to be The United Church of God which evolved from Herbert W.Armstrongs Worldwide Church of God. Comments?

The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” - Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You (1894).
When both religious and non-religious people reach the same conclusions then you know religion isn't the reason.--Percy
Democrats should not be the only party. Respect the two-party system. -Phat, in December 2022
We see Monsters where Science shows us Windmills.~Phat, remixed

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1082 by candle2, posted 01-25-2023 10:03 AM candle2 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1088 by candle2, posted 01-26-2023 3:13 PM Phat has replied

  
candle2
Member
Posts: 316
Joined: 12-31-2018


Message 1087 of 1147 (905433)
01-26-2023 12:47 PM
Reply to: Message 1085 by GDR
01-25-2023 8:32 PM


Re: The Limitations Of Good And Evil Behaviors
GDR, after Jesus was resurrected He did not have a
physical body. He could walk right through walls.
After coming from the tomb, Jesus told Mary Magdalene:
John 20:17 "Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to
my father:"
Jesus, while not in His glorious spiritual body, was not in
a physical body.
The Apostles were to be witnesses of His resurrection.
They could not be witnesses if they were dead from
seeing Him in all His glory.
Remember in Exodus 33 when Jesus told Moses that no
one could no see Him in all His glory and live?
Jesus (as the Word) appeared to a number of men in the
OT. But, He took on the body of a normal man. He can
take on any body that He chooses.
The doctrine that Jesus was resurrected into a physical
body is nothing more than philosophical concept.
It covers the fact that is our very life and not our puny
body that we want to get back in the resurrection.
1 Corinthians 15:50
"Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot
inheritthe Kingdom of God; neither does corruption
inherit incorruptible.
Vs. 53 "For this corruptible must put on incorruptible,
and this mortal must put on immortality.
How anyone can read the entire chapter and not
understand the the corruptible (flesh and blood)
must put on the incorruptible (spirit body) is beyond
me.
When Christ returns and sets His Kingdom up on earth
He will still not at that time be in His fully glorified body.
His brightness would destroy all who are still mortal.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1085 by GDR, posted 01-25-2023 8:32 PM GDR has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1090 by GDR, posted 01-27-2023 5:47 PM candle2 has replied

  
candle2
Member
Posts: 316
Joined: 12-31-2018


Message 1088 of 1147 (905440)
01-26-2023 3:13 PM
Reply to: Message 1086 by Phat
01-26-2023 11:58 AM


Re: The Limitations Of Good And Evil Behaviors
Phat, any church that truly loves God, and that
teaches God's truth, and that keep His
Commandments; all ten of them, is God's church.
Read what the NT has to say about God's Commandments.
John 1415 Jesus said "If you love me keep my
Commandments.
John 15: 10 Jesus said "If you keep my Commandments,
ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's
Commandments, and abide in His love.
1 John 2:3-4 "And thereby we do know that we know him,
if we keep His Commandments.
He that saith, I know Him, and keeps not His
Commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him."
1 John 3:23-24 "....and love one another, as He gave us
Commandments. And He that keeps His Commandments
dwells in Him, and He in him.
And hereby we know that He abides in us, by the
Spirit that He gave us."
1 John 5:3 "For this is the love of God, that we keep His
Commandments: and His Commandments are not
grievous."
Do, you believe that God's 10 Commandments are still
binding?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1086 by Phat, posted 01-26-2023 11:58 AM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1089 by ringo, posted 01-27-2023 11:43 AM candle2 has replied
 Message 1097 by Phat, posted 01-29-2023 11:37 AM candle2 has replied

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 20810
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.4


(1)
Message 1089 of 1147 (905466)
01-27-2023 11:43 AM
Reply to: Message 1088 by candle2
01-26-2023 3:13 PM


Re: The Limitations Of Good And Evil Behaviors
candle2 writes:
1 John 5:3 "For this is the love of God, that we keep His
Commandments: and His Commandments are not
grievous."

Do, you believe that God's 10 Commandments are still
binding?
You contradict yourself.
The commandments are not binding. "We" keep them for the love of God.
"We" who keep the commandments are God's church, not "we" who believe in the Trinity or "we" who believe this or that about "souls".
And John didn't mention "ten" commandments.

Come all of you cowboys all over this land,
I'll teach you the law of the Ranger's Command:
To hold a six shooter, and never to run
As long as there's bullets in both of your guns.
-- Woody Guthrie

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1088 by candle2, posted 01-26-2023 3:13 PM candle2 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1095 by candle2, posted 01-29-2023 10:25 AM ringo has replied
 Message 1103 by candle2, posted 01-30-2023 4:21 PM ringo has replied

  
GDR
Member
Posts: 5920
From: Sidney, BC, Canada
Joined: 05-22-2005
Member Rating: 1.3


Message 1090 of 1147 (905477)
01-27-2023 5:47 PM
Reply to: Message 1087 by candle2
01-26-2023 12:47 PM


Re: The Limitations Of Good And Evil Behaviors
candle2 writes:
GDR, after Jesus was resurrected He did not have a
physical body. He could walk right through walls.

After coming from the tomb, Jesus told Mary Magdalene:

John 20:17 "Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to
my father:"

Jesus, while not in His glorious spiritual body, was not in
a physical body.
He also told Thomas to touch him. He ate fish. He walked with the two on the road to Emmaus and they clearly saw Him as a physical being. Yes, there was something different about His renewed physicality but He was physical.

He has told you, O man, what is good ; And what does the LORD require of you But to do justice, to love kindness, And to walk humbly with your God.

Micah 6:8


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1087 by candle2, posted 01-26-2023 12:47 PM candle2 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1091 by Tangle, posted 01-27-2023 6:10 PM GDR has not replied
 Message 1093 by candle2, posted 01-28-2023 3:40 PM GDR has not replied

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 8887
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 3.1


(2)
Message 1091 of 1147 (905478)
01-27-2023 6:10 PM
Reply to: Message 1090 by GDR
01-27-2023 5:47 PM


Re: The Limitations Of Good And Evil Behaviors
I wish you two could hear yourselves.

Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London. Olen Suomi Soy Barcelona. I am Ukraine.

"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1090 by GDR, posted 01-27-2023 5:47 PM GDR has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1092 by dwise1, posted 01-27-2023 7:19 PM Tangle has not replied

  
dwise1
Member
Posts: 5558
Joined: 05-02-2006
Member Rating: 3.0


(3)
Message 1092 of 1147 (905480)
01-27-2023 7:19 PM
Reply to: Message 1091 by Tangle
01-27-2023 6:10 PM


Re: The Limitations Of Good And Evil Behaviors
I'm sure I've heard this kind of argument before.
Oh, yeah. On Big Bang Theory when the girls read a Thor comic book:

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1091 by Tangle, posted 01-27-2023 6:10 PM Tangle has not replied

  
candle2
Member
Posts: 316
Joined: 12-31-2018


Message 1093 of 1147 (905502)
01-28-2023 3:40 PM
Reply to: Message 1090 by GDR
01-27-2023 5:47 PM


Re: The Limitations Of Good And Evil Behaviors
GDR, Jesus could also drink and eat, but this was not
His glorious spiritual body.
Decades after Jesus' resurrection the Apostle John wrote
This:
1John 3:2 "Beloved, now we are the sons of God, and it
does not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that,
when He shall appear, we shall be like Him; for we shall
see Him as He is.
John had seen Jesus after the resurrection, and he knew
for certain that the body Jesus was then in was not His
Glorious body.
When John wrote this he was a begotten Son of God, but
not yet a born son of God (born again).
People misunderstand the concept of "born again."
Those who are resurrected as born again sons of God are
spirit beings.
John describes those born again in John 3:3-8.
They are invisible to mortal eyes.
In Revelation 1, John, in a vision, saw the risen Christ.
Vs.14-16 "His head and His hairs were white like wool, as
white as snow; and His eyes were as a flame of fire;
And His feet like unto fine brass, as if they burned in a
furnace; His voice as the sound of many waters.
And He had in His right hand seven stars: and out of His
mouth went a sharp two-edged sword: and His
countenance was as the sun shineth in his strength."
His countenance (face) would have destroyed all
witnesses of His resurrection.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1090 by GDR, posted 01-27-2023 5:47 PM GDR has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1094 by AZPaul3, posted 01-28-2023 10:30 PM candle2 has not replied

  
AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 7476
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 3.2


Message 1094 of 1147 (905515)
01-28-2023 10:30 PM
Reply to: Message 1093 by candle2
01-28-2023 3:40 PM


Re: The Limitations Of Good And Evil Behaviors
"His head and His hairs were white like...
Strong strain of shrooms.

Stop Tzar Vladimir the Condemned!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1093 by candle2, posted 01-28-2023 3:40 PM candle2 has not replied

  
candle2
Member
Posts: 316
Joined: 12-31-2018


Message 1095 of 1147 (905517)
01-29-2023 10:25 AM
Reply to: Message 1089 by ringo
01-27-2023 11:43 AM


Re: The Limitations Of Good And Evil Behaviors
Ringo, love is what binds the 10 Commandments
together. Love for and from God is what gives us the
motivation to respect and keep His laws.
The two greatest Commandments are to "love the Lord
thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with
all thy mind."
"This is the first and great commandment."
"And the second is like unto it, 'thou shall love thy
neighbor as thyself."
"On these two Commandments hang all the law and
prophets."
The other 8 Commandments are only possible for us
to keep if we truly love God and our fellow humans.
Which of the other 8 Commandments can we toss away
if we truly love others?
Can we steal from them? Lie to them? Commit adultery
against them? Which Commandments does God say it
is now okay to continually break?
Nine of the 10 Commandments are reiterated in the NT, in
various places.
The 4th Commandment (keep the Sabbath) was
strictly observed for all to see.
There are several instances of the church meeting on the
Sabbath.
Here are just two that involves the Gentiles:
Acts 13: 42 "And when the Jews were gone out of the
synagogue, the Gentiles besought that these words
might be preached to them the next Sabbath."
If the Sabbath had indeed been done away with, why
didn't Paul just tell them this?
He could have easily told them that there was no need
to wait until the next Sabbath; that he would preach to
them the following day, which would be the first day of
the week.
Acts 13: 44 "And the next Sabbath Day came almost the
whole city to hear the word of God."
There is no place in the NT where the Sabbath is said to
no longer be in effect.
Read Hebrews 8: 6-13. It plainly states that God's laws
will be put into our minds, and written in our hearts.
This is the exact opposite of being done away with.
For those in the first resurrection this will happen during
this current age.
For the vast majority of all who has ever lived this will
occur during the second resurrection.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1089 by ringo, posted 01-27-2023 11:43 AM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1096 by Phat, posted 01-29-2023 11:28 AM candle2 has not replied
 Message 1102 by ringo, posted 01-30-2023 11:49 AM candle2 has replied

  
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