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Member (Idle past 5908 days) Posts: 3435 From: Edmonton Alberta Canada Joined: |
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Author | Topic: The Meaning Of The Trinity | |||||||||||||||||||||||
Taq Member Posts: 9973 Joined: Member Rating: 5.7 |
Phat writes: Yes, I believe so. God is confidant and secure there. He does not fear disagreement. If our freedom is the the cause of evil then there will also be evil in heaven.
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Phat Member Posts: 18262 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.1 |
Our freedom caused the actualization of hypothetical evil. God foreknew (in the parable) that humans would choose self actualization before they chose Jesus(Tree of Life) There will be no such battle in Heaven. The score is being settled here in this realm. Granted this is my own apologetic interpretation...im no Biblical scholar (Thank God!)
The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” - Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You (1894). When both religious and non-religious people reach the same conclusions then you know religion isn't the reason.--Percy Democrats should not be the only party. Respect the two-party system. -Phat, in December 2022 We see Monsters where Science shows us Windmills.~Phat, remixed
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ringo Member (Idle past 412 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
candle2 writes:
Science doesn't deal in proof, so there's no reason for science to have "proof" of evolution. Science also doesn't have "proof" of gravity. Ya know why? Because science doesn't deal in proof.
Ringo, you say that evolutionists do not deal with proof.And, you are 100% right. There is no proof of evolution. candle2 writes:
Well, noi, we don't. You demanded proof for evolution, which means you don't know anything about science.
See, we agree. candle2 writes:
You have been lied to.
Evolutionists do not have evidence that creationistsdon't have. candle2 writes:
And you contradict yourself. How could they have "access" to the evidence if there was no evidence?
Everyone has access to the same evidence. candle2 writes:
And you don't understand what interpretation means. The interpretation is different. Take the "Flood", for example. You CAN NOT interpret evidence of many small floods as evidence of one large flood. That isn't interpretation. That is fantasy.
candle2 writes:
Nope. No faith. You have been lied to.
In any event, evolutionists have faith, and nothing more,that their views are right. candle2 writes:
I have said flat-out in many posts that I live in Canada. No miracle prognostication requitred.
Judging by your posts and the evidence (be honest andtell me how close I am) I say with 90% certainty that you live in Canada. candle2 writes:
100% wrong.
80% certainty that you are female. candle2 writes:
100% wrong.
85% certainty that you are between 75-80 years old. candle2 writes:
100% wrong.
95% certainty that you believe in the existence of God... candle2 writes:
100% wrong. I don't try to deny the existence of God any more than you try to deny the existence of Quetzalcoatl.
...but you try your best to deny this. candle2 writes:
Dismally. If you had actually looked at the "evidence available" (my 20,000 or so posts), you would have found most of the actual facts instead of making silly assumptions. Based on the available evidence how did I do. But you DON't look at the evidence. You only look up your ass, which is where your assumptions about evolution come from too.Come all of you cowboys all over this land, I'll teach you the law of the Ranger's Command: To hold a six shooter, and never to run As long as there's bullets in both of your guns. -- Woody Guthrie
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Taq Member Posts: 9973 Joined: Member Rating: 5.7 |
Phat writes: Our freedom caused the actualization of hypothetical evil. God foreknew (in the parable) that humans would choose self actualization before they chose Jesus(Tree of Life) There will be no such battle in Heaven. So people can't choose to do evil in heaven?
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Theodoric Member Posts: 9076 From: Northwest, WI, USA Joined: Member Rating: 3.7 |
Why would anyone want to be a mindless zombie?
What can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence. -Christopher Hitchens Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts "God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness. If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?
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ringo Member (Idle past 412 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes:
No need to cry. What's wrong with Quetzalcoatl? Why can't Quetzalcoatl be another aspect of a multi-une god?
In another thread you even brought up Quatzechotal, for crying out loud! Phat writes:
Nothing "stubborn" about it. It's blindingly obvious. You never brought up a single coherent objection.
You stubbornly clung to the fact that if the Creator allowed the "hole to be dug" by which people could fall into it, He was in fact evil. Phat writes:
And your belief, along with Goober Kreeft, is still wrong. There is no difference between creating evil and creating the "possibility" of evil. Make an argument. Don't just repeat the same nonsense.
So my basic belief, shared by Dr.Peter Kreeft, is that God initially only created the possibility of evil. Phat writes:
Go ahead and name twenty people who are not willing to give up the experience of war, famine, genocide, etc. I maintain that the jury is definitely NOT out on that.
ringo writes:
Some would agree, others wouldnt. I'm willing to give up the experience of war, famine, genocide, etc. Phat writes:
You deny Jesus.
You mouth off to God more than I do... Phat writes:
I have thought about everything I talk about. That's why it's easy to rebut your so-called arguments. ringo writes:
Why not think about it for once? Why couldn't God avoid creating evil by creating a world that didn't evolve? Take your own advice.
Phat writes:
Disaster is evil. Calamity is evil. No difference after all.
You claim that its all God fault according to Isaiah 45:7. In fact, here are several translations: Phat writes:
That's what I keep telling you but you continue to pretend that Satan is the bad guy.
God takes full responsibility for all that Job has endured and nobody blames Satan. Phat writes:
And you contradict yourself AGAIN.
You, on the other hand, have mentioned being Satans defense attorney! Phat writes:
You're making that up. It says no such thing.
The problem with the tree of knowledge is that people became more aware of themselves and less aware of God. Phat writes:
And it says nothing about choosing one tree or the other. They were forbidden from eating from ONE tree only.
Had they chosen the other tree .... Phat writes:
Jesus didn't exist until thousands of years later.
... they could have had Jesus... Phat writes:
Not "self-actualization". Knowledge of Good and Evil.
... but instead they chose the tree of self actualization. Phat writes:
He didn't need to. I know how to operate a keyboard. And I like how you capitalize I AM. Did the snake teach you that? Edited by ringo, . Come all of you cowboys all over this land, I'll teach you the law of the Ranger's Command: To hold a six shooter, and never to run As long as there's bullets in both of your guns. -- Woody Guthrie
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Tangle Member Posts: 9489 From: UK Joined: Member Rating: 4.9 |
Phat writes: I was unaware that nobody has freedom *here*. What I asked you was "Is there freedom in heaven Phat?" ie freedom to do evil in heaven. Is there? Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London. Olen Suomi Soy Barcelona. I am Ukraine. "Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
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ringo Member (Idle past 412 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes:
What parable? God foreknew (in the parable) that humans would choose self actualization before they chose Jesus(Tree of Life)Come all of you cowboys all over this land, I'll teach you the law of the Ranger's Command: To hold a six shooter, and never to run As long as there's bullets in both of your guns. -- Woody Guthrie
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Phat Member Posts: 18262 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.1 |
Taq writes: Satan got booted out of there for advocating the same thing. I would imagine that anyone who actually makes it to Heaven would be technically capable of but thoroughly unlikely to do or spread evil in Heaven. If they did, like the fallen angels before them they would get booted. So people can't choose to do evil in heaven?The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” - Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You (1894). When both religious and non-religious people reach the same conclusions then you know religion isn't the reason.--Percy Democrats should not be the only party. Respect the two-party system. -Phat, in December 2022 We see Monsters where Science shows us Windmills.~Phat, remixed
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Phat Member Posts: 18262 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.1 |
Genesis. The tree(s). The snake. The nakedness. Surely you know of this parable.
The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” - Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You (1894). When both religious and non-religious people reach the same conclusions then you know religion isn't the reason.--Percy Democrats should not be the only party. Respect the two-party system. -Phat, in December 2022 We see Monsters where Science shows us Windmills.~Phat, remixed
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Phat Member Posts: 18262 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.1 |
tangle writes: First off, technically none of us know. But we can speculate. What I asked you was "Is there freedom in heaven Phat?" ie freedom to do evil in heaven. Is there? To begin with, what is the definition of evil? Second, what is the definition (and social and spiritual parameters) of such a place? Third, Who is in charge?The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” - Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You (1894). When both religious and non-religious people reach the same conclusions then you know religion isn't the reason.--Percy Democrats should not be the only party. Respect the two-party system. -Phat, in December 2022 We see Monsters where Science shows us Windmills.~Phat, remixed
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ringo Member (Idle past 412 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes:
Since when is it a parable? You seem to think that Adam and Eve and the snake were real. Genesis. The tree(s). The snake. The nakedness. Surely you know of this parable.Come all of you cowboys all over this land, I'll teach you the law of the Ranger's Command: To hold a six shooter, and never to run As long as there's bullets in both of your guns. -- Woody Guthrie
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Tangle Member Posts: 9489 From: UK Joined: Member Rating: 4.9 |
Phat writes: First off ...etc I think you're avoiding the question. It's a philosophical question Phat. The explanation often given by apologists for the existence of evil here on earth (define it anyway you like, it doesn't matter) is free will. They say that God could not create a place where people could only be good - free will means the ability to chose to do both good and evil. So evil must exist. So I asked you whether people in heaven have free will? Heaven is a place were people live happily ever after so how can evil exist there? if evil doesn't exist there, why can't it not exist here? Apparently god CAN create a place without evil.Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London. Olen Suomi Soy Barcelona. I am Ukraine. "Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
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Phat Member Posts: 18262 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.1 |
if evil doesn't exist there, why can it not exist here? Because we have willfully allowed it. God respects our free will so much that He won't simply take the evil away from us. We allowed it in. We must push it out. Of course, we are also free enough to choose to ask Him to help. He won't do it all, however.The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” - Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You (1894). When both religious and non-religious people reach the same conclusions then you know religion isn't the reason.--Percy Democrats should not be the only party. Respect the two-party system. -Phat, in December 2022 We see Monsters where Science shows us Windmills.~Phat, remixed
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Taq Member Posts: 9973 Joined: Member Rating: 5.7 |
Phat writes: Because we have willfully allowed it. God respects our free will so much that He won't simply take the evil away from us. Why couldn't we willfully allow it in heaven?
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