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Author Topic:   The Meaning Of The Trinity
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 946 of 1864 (903105)
12-04-2022 1:07 PM
Reply to: Message 944 by Tangle
12-04-2022 12:45 PM


The Media As Conduit
Tangle writes:
Cant...
And you wonder why Division exists in religion and in politics!
In politics, it got worse when Trump came along, but IIRC it started back when Bush(Dubya) and Gore were deadlocked....which had never before happened in a presidential election. In previous elections, one candidate or the other would usually decisively win (or lose) an election.
The charismaniacs (Charismatics) and the rise of non-denominational churches sent the public face of Christian belief into a bizarro world. People fell out and talked in tongues back in the days of the "Great Awakenings" (but) The unholy combination of religious fervor and media exposure turned religion into a circus...a giant infomercial.
And in politics, it was much the same. Except that the Conservatives run the religious circus while the Left runs the political media. It is all human nature writ large. It is a sign of the times and you are correct in that religion is declining. One side seeks authority to override the other side (think Supreme Court judges) while the other side seeks only a clear majority of the people. (made more difficult due to election fraud and uncertainty.)
And I would argue that the people are willfully ignorant. Both sides!
More on religion declining in your new topic.

The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” - Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You (1894).
When both religious and non-religious people reach the same conclusions then you know religion isn't the reason.--Percy
Nor are Democrats the best party or the only one we should have. -Phat,2022 addressing The Peanut Gallery.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 944 by Tangle, posted 12-04-2022 12:45 PM Tangle has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 949 by Tangle, posted 12-04-2022 2:30 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 947 of 1864 (903107)
12-04-2022 1:21 PM
Reply to: Message 945 by Theodoric
12-04-2022 12:51 PM


Re: Back To The Trinity (Remix)
Overusing the term "word salad" is much like the boy who cried "wolf".
Again, or maybe I should say still
Why do you always criticize my posts and yet seem able to do nothing more than google written criticisms (of my authors) without having an original thought on their content? Could it be because your bias (and ego) are set in stone? One can only wonder...
Don't expect me to read too much of Carrier if you don't force yourself to actually read Dalio. I see that you have taken up jars habit of attempting to demolish arguments simply by throwing out criticism and then reframing the argument. We really do need to learn to get along.

The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” - Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You (1894).
When both religious and non-religious people reach the same conclusions then you know religion isn't the reason.--Percy
Nor are Democrats the best party or the only one we should have. -Phat,2022 addressing The Peanut Gallery.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 945 by Theodoric, posted 12-04-2022 12:51 PM Theodoric has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 948 by Theodoric, posted 12-04-2022 1:46 PM Phat has replied

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 9076
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 3.7


Message 948 of 1864 (903112)
12-04-2022 1:46 PM
Reply to: Message 947 by Phat
12-04-2022 1:21 PM


Re: Back To The Trinity (Remix)
But that post said nothing. It was random incoherent thoughts with no reasoning, argument or facts to support it. You comments of evolution and enlightenment were a mixture of equivocation and nonsense.
There is a huge difference between Carrier and Dalio. Carrier is a peer reviewed academic, writing within his expertise. Dalio is a rich guy that has no expertise in what he is writing about trying to turn pithy phrases stock comments into some sort of new age tech homespun wisdom.
Your so called experts are never experts. I am not going to take my time to demolish them when others have done a much better job. I never heard of Dalio before you posted about him. Why would I read or listen to him when he is just some rich yahoo spouting crap. I researcehed him, found out he was a rich pretentious ass and decided he was not worth wasting my time. Am I not able to discount Nick Fuentes because I have not actually listened to him or read what he has written.
Go ahead criticize Carrier. What is wrong with what he has written? Why should you discount it?

What can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence. -Christopher Hitchens

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 947 by Phat, posted 12-04-2022 1:21 PM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 950 by Phat, posted 12-04-2022 2:40 PM Theodoric has replied

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 9489
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 4.9


Message 949 of 1864 (903118)
12-04-2022 2:30 PM
Reply to: Message 946 by Phat
12-04-2022 1:07 PM


Re: The Media As Conduit
Phat writes:
And you wonder why Division exists in religion and in politics!
I guess you didn't know that "cant" means 'sanctimonious talk of a religious nature'

Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London. Olen Suomi Soy Barcelona. I am Ukraine.

"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 946 by Phat, posted 12-04-2022 1:07 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 950 of 1864 (903120)
12-04-2022 2:40 PM
Reply to: Message 948 by Theodoric
12-04-2022 1:46 PM


Re: Back To The Trinity (Remix)
Go ahead criticize Carrier. What is wrong with what he has written? Why should you discount it?
Because he attempts to discredit the whole belief of Christianity.

The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” - Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You (1894).
When both religious and non-religious people reach the same conclusions then you know religion isn't the reason.--Percy
Nor are Democrats the best party or the only one we should have. -Phat,2022 addressing The Peanut Gallery.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 948 by Theodoric, posted 12-04-2022 1:46 PM Theodoric has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 951 by Tangle, posted 12-04-2022 2:59 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied
 Message 958 by Theodoric, posted 12-04-2022 6:16 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 9489
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 4.9


Message 951 of 1864 (903126)
12-04-2022 2:59 PM
Reply to: Message 950 by Phat
12-04-2022 2:40 PM


Re: Back To The Trinity (Remix)
Phat writes:
Because he attempts to discredit the whole belief of Christianity.
You mean like Darwin did?

Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London. Olen Suomi Soy Barcelona. I am Ukraine.

"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 950 by Phat, posted 12-04-2022 2:40 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 952 of 1864 (903127)
12-04-2022 3:04 PM
Reply to: Message 922 by candle2
11-29-2022 12:53 PM


Re: Simplistically Speaking
candle2 writes:
Conserve means to conserve the ways of life that has
made America the envy of the world.
America is not the envy of the world. The best-known phrase in the English language is, "Yankee, go home."
Since Trump, America has been either the joke of the world or the horror of the world.
Candle2 writes:
Isaiah 5:20-21 "Woe unto them that call evil
good, and good evil; that put darkness for light,
and light for darkness; that put bitter for sweet,
and sweet for bitter!

Woe unto them that are wise in their own eyes,
and prudent in their own sight!"
Look in the mirror.

Come all of you cowboys all over this land,
I'll teach you the law of the Ranger's Command:
To hold a six shooter, and never to run
As long as there's bullets in both of your guns.
-- Woody Guthrie

This message is a reply to:
 Message 922 by candle2, posted 11-29-2022 12:53 PM candle2 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 959 by candle2, posted 12-05-2022 8:06 AM ringo has replied

  
candle2
Member
Posts: 827
Joined: 12-31-2018
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 953 of 1864 (903130)
12-04-2022 3:18 PM
Reply to: Message 941 by Phat
12-04-2022 8:06 AM


Re: English Speaking Israelites?
Phat, Wales is primarily of the tribe Ephraim.
Ephraim, the youngest son of Joseph was to become
greater than his brother Manasseh.
Ephraim was to become a company of nations. And,
Ephraim has fulfilled that. There was a time, and not
long ago when the sun never set on the British Empire.
And, America is the single greatest nation that has ever
existed.
English is the international language or commerce and
industry.
The international monetary system is controlled by the
dollar.
These two nations are, in fact, brothers. They have had
their conflicts with each other, but no nations in history
can fulfill the roles ascribed to them.
I understand that the birthright blessings were withheld
from them for many centuries, but Leviticus tell us why
this was so. It was withheld until about 1800.
In Genesis 22, God told Abraham (after Abraham was
willing to sacrifice his son Issac) that his descendants
would be as the stars of heaven, and as the sand upon
the sea shore.
And, that his seed would possess the gates of their
enemies.
First of all, the seed here was not referring to Ishmael.
It pertained to Abraham's seed through Issac.
Verse 18 states that all nations of the earth would be
blessed through Abraham's actions. This refers to Jesus
the Christ-a seed of Abraham.
However, verse 17 refers to race, not grace.
God, has no respect of person. All races are the same in
His eyes. If this were not so I could not love Him.
During this present age He is working primarily through
Israel and the nations that come into contact with it.
As far as "gates" go, just a few years ago the U.S. and
GB controlled such passes as Suez, Singapore, Straits
of Magellan, Panama Canal, Gibraltar, etc...
The other tribes of Israel inhabit such countries as
Holland, Denmark. Northern France, Luxembourg,
Switzerland, Sweden, Norway, Iceland, Belgium.
The other nations of Israelites have a good standard of
living, but the birthright brothers are on another level.
I had two of these books, but I loaned them out and
never got them back.
Our church does not get involved with politics. I sometimes
say more than I should, but it is a difficult habit to break.
It is fine to ask others what they think about the Identity
of the Jews and Israel, but in the end we each have to
decide for ourselves.
My best advice is for you to read the book.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 941 by Phat, posted 12-04-2022 8:06 AM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 954 by Phat, posted 12-04-2022 3:25 PM candle2 has replied
 Message 955 by PaulK, posted 12-04-2022 3:40 PM candle2 has not replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 954 of 1864 (903131)
12-04-2022 3:25 PM
Reply to: Message 953 by candle2
12-04-2022 3:18 PM


Re: English Speaking Israelites?
candle2 writes:
My best advice is for you to read the book.
OK. I promise to read it if you watch the video of Ray Dalios book, or read the book itself. He talks a lot about Britain and the US as the two middle empires of the four he mentions.

The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” - Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You (1894).
When both religious and non-religious people reach the same conclusions then you know religion isn't the reason.--Percy
Nor are Democrats the best party or the only one we should have. -Phat,2022 addressing The Peanut Gallery.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 953 by candle2, posted 12-04-2022 3:18 PM candle2 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 956 by candle2, posted 12-04-2022 5:54 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied
 Message 957 by candle2, posted 12-04-2022 5:57 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied
 Message 964 by candle2, posted 12-10-2022 2:39 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
PaulK
Member
Posts: 17822
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 2.2


Message 955 of 1864 (903132)
12-04-2022 3:40 PM
Reply to: Message 953 by candle2
12-04-2022 3:18 PM


Re: English Speaking Israelites?
quote:
Phat, Wales is primarily of the tribe Ephraim.
The Welsh are a Celtic people. So, no.
quote:
My best advice is for you to read the book
Is it really funny then? Because it sounds like a joke.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 953 by candle2, posted 12-04-2022 3:18 PM candle2 has not replied

  
candle2
Member
Posts: 827
Joined: 12-31-2018
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 956 of 1864 (903134)
12-04-2022 5:54 PM
Reply to: Message 954 by Phat
12-04-2022 3:25 PM


Re: English Speaking Israelites?
Phat, it's a deal. I will fit it in somehow.
I am beginning to wonder whether I should have
volunteered at the other animal shelter.
We are quite busy now, but I will look for either the
book or video at the libraries this week.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 954 by Phat, posted 12-04-2022 3:25 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
candle2
Member
Posts: 827
Joined: 12-31-2018
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 957 of 1864 (903135)
12-04-2022 5:57 PM
Reply to: Message 954 by Phat
12-04-2022 3:25 PM


Re: English Speaking Israelites?
Phat, I followed your link. Must have overlooked it.
Will watch it. Might take me a few days to reply.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 954 by Phat, posted 12-04-2022 3:25 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 9076
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 3.7


Message 958 of 1864 (903137)
12-04-2022 6:16 PM
Reply to: Message 950 by Phat
12-04-2022 2:40 PM


Re: Back To The Trinity (Remix)
You obviously have not read what he has written
Henl is just presenting and exploring the evidence. That is how science works. It leads where it leads.

What can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence. -Christopher Hitchens

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 950 by Phat, posted 12-04-2022 2:40 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
candle2
Member
Posts: 827
Joined: 12-31-2018
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 959 of 1864 (903143)
12-05-2022 8:06 AM
Reply to: Message 952 by ringo
12-04-2022 3:04 PM


Re: Simplistically Speaking
Ringo, you are right. America is not the envy of the world.
Millions of people are dashing across our nation's borders
in a mad frenzy to escape America.
At the current rate of Exodus America will have less than
100,000,000 inhabitants in twenty years.
It is really sad to see all these Americans escape to
places such as Mexico; Honduras; Guatemala; and,
other choice destinations.
Immigrants are breaking down walls to get into Russia;
China; Iran; and South Korea, just to name a few.
I was wrong, but your big giant brain has set me straight.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 952 by ringo, posted 12-04-2022 3:04 PM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 960 by Phat, posted 12-05-2022 8:46 AM candle2 has not replied
 Message 962 by ringo, posted 12-05-2022 10:54 AM candle2 has replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 960 of 1864 (903144)
12-05-2022 8:46 AM
Reply to: Message 959 by candle2
12-05-2022 8:06 AM


Non Protestant & Non religious success stories
ringo lives in Canada. Ask him if Canada has any issues or restrictions on immigration. I have a conservative friend (like you, though he is not religious.) His parents came to America with virtually nothing. His Dad was from Portugal originally and his Mom came from Argentina. They "believed" in America as the great hope for opportunity and progress that it used to be, as you say and claim. With no formal education, they built their lives here. Dad was a jack of all trades, but he specialized at making shoes and working with leather. He had a job at Gates Rubber here in Denver and this family grew up on the "American Dream". Like my parents, they started out with nothing and made a decent living for themselves, teaching their children to do the same. The only reference to religion that I ever heard from him in regard to his parents was that his Mom was raised Catholic and wanted to become a nun at one point early in her life. Like you, (and perhaps men such as Ray Dalio) they believed in America and what it stood for. They expected (and received) no handouts. Comments?

The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” - Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You (1894).
When both religious and non-religious people reach the same conclusions then you know religion isn't the reason.--Percy
Nor are Democrats the best party or the only one we should have. -Phat,2022 addressing The Peanut Gallery.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 959 by candle2, posted 12-05-2022 8:06 AM candle2 has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 963 by ringo, posted 12-05-2022 11:14 AM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
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