Summations Only

Then state it at the start. A cardinal rule in writing that they teach in college is that you start your essay with a thesis statement (preferably in the very first paragraph), then use the body of the essay for exposition and support of that thesis statement, concluded with a conclusion to the effect that the body of the essay does support and lead to the thesis statement.IOW, be upfront with what it is that you are talking about. The very question that strikes terror in the hearts of all creationists and most apologists.Instead, you are employing a standard dishonest apologist tactic of bombarding us with a mountain of bullshit in order to muddy the waters enough for you to slip in a bait-and-switch or similar act of deception.Why does serving your god require dishonesty and deception? According to Christian doctrine, which Christian deity is served by dishonesty and deception?And what does this tangent have to do with your lie in Message 1820?: You are just trying to change the subject. Typical creationist dishonesty.

Tangle, Israel had twelve sons, which were the progenitors
of the twelve tribes of Israel.One of these sons was Judah, from whom the Jews
descended. Another was Joseph, who was, in a sense,
elevated to that of a forefather, along with Abraham,
Isaac, and Israel.Joseph received a double blessing in that both his sons
were tribes. This brought the total to thirteen tribes.The 48th chapter of Genesis (v.18) states that these two
young boys were given the very name of Israel. The other
Tribes are also Israelites, but the very name of Israel
was bestowed upon Ephraim and Manasseh.Joseph's sons were to grow into a multitude in the midst
of the earth.The youngest son, Ephraim, was to become the greater
of the two. He seed was to become a multitude (company)
of nations.Manasseh was to become the single great nation.Leviticus 26 tells what God would do for Israel if they
kept His Commandments and His Laws. It also states
their punishment if they walked contrary to them.Israel's blessings were to be withheld till the last days.Ephraim and Manasseh were to come into prominence
in the last days. Genesis 49. What was to befall all of the
tribes of Israel is foretold in Genesis 49, as well as
Deuteronomy 33.In Deut. 33 Joseph's blessings are state ln verses 13-17.
Joseph's blessings are far above those of his brothers.Gen. 49, verse states that the chief ruler (Jesus) would
come from the tribe of Judah.However, the power, wealth, and might would belong to
Joseph's sons-verses 22-26.Reubens, the oldest of Israel's sons, which is mostly in
modern day France, lost the birthright blessings because
he slept with his father's concubine.Aside from Ephraim and Manasseh, the other tribes
Comprise nations such as Denmark; Ireland; Iceland;
the Netherlands, etc...Great Britain is Ephraim, the Company of Nations. At it's
height GB controlled nearly a quarter of the world's
population, as well a quarter of it's land area.Ephraim consists of England, Wales, part of Scotland,
Australia, New Zealand, South Africa, and Canada.Manasseh is the single greatest nation that has ever
existed, and by a substantial degree.Manasseh consists of the United States and Scotland.There are no other countries (brothers) that even remotely
resembles GB an the U.S. in regards to prediction of them
in the last days.Genesis states that these two brothers were to control the
gates and sea lanes of their enemies.At one time they controlled the strait of Gibraltar, the Suez,
Panama, Port of Dover, Cape of Good Hope, Hormuz, Hong
Kong, Singapore, and others.The very fact that the Bible foretold the enormous
blessings of these two brothers is convincing proof of
divine revelation, and is evidence of God's control over
the affairs of man.

candle2, In a hole in the ground there lived a hobbit. Not a nasty, dirty, wet hole, filled with the ends of worms and an oozy smell, nor yet a dry, bare, sandy hole with nothing in it to sit down on or to eat: it was a hobbit-hole, and that means comfort.
​

The only thing you’ve proved is that you’re ignorant and gullible. And we already knew that.But please, if you want to make a bigger fool of yourself present your arguments. After all, you said: “What I can't prove myself o will not believe.” Message 1643 So obviously you can prove all that - can’t you? You can’t have relied on a book written more than one hundred years when so much more has been discovered, can you?(Yes, I’m having a laugh because you were lying and I know it. But you deserve it).

Tangle, I think that dwise would like for me to address
this post. Not quite sure what exactly he wants me to
reply to, but here goes.The great and magnificent Darwin, and certain others
who lived during the Mid-Ninteenth Century, honestly
thought that the simplest living cells were nothing more
than a "jelly-like substance".They believed that the cell was destitute of protoplasms,
and that it was devoid of texture and organs.Now that we know the simplest cell is more complicated
and complex than the space shuttle it makes Darwin and
his sidekicks look stupid.Darwinians actually think that this was a brilliant man.We know that the human cell carries out a billion chemical
reactions every second. And these reactions are not
random; they work together.Biochemist Douglas Axe puts the probability of one
functional protein forming by chance at 1 in 10 to the 64th
power.Write those zeroes out and then tell me that this is a
better chance than a living God.Douglas and Biochemist Ann Gauger affirm that with
current knowledge the minimum time required for one
protein to evolve into another, with just small changes
is 10 to the power of 27 years.By their estimate, even if the universe is 13 billion light
years old that would not be nearly enough time for one
functional protein to form, much less for one protein
to evolve into another.Surely you can see how irrational Darwinians can be.

What has Darwin got to do with whether god(s) exist?
​ I don't know what a Darwinian is but, yes, science and society generally has him up there with Newton and Einstein. And indeed he was a genius.
​ When you say "we", you mean the scientists that made progress on the shoulders of Darwin.
​ You are talking about things you don't understand. I'm not a competent enough statistician to explain the fallacy here but it has been debunked for decades. It's a silly argument; can you tell me the probability of god?
​ Same fallacy.
​ Can you explain why you think Darwin is relevant to this discussion?

quote:

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Biochemist Douglas Axe puts the probability of one
functional protein forming by chance at 1 in 10 to the 64th
power.
​

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By random assembly. Which isn’t exactly relevant even if he got the number right.

quote:

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Douglas and Biochemist Ann Gauger affirm that with
current knowledge the minimum time required for one
protein to evolve into another, with just small changes
is 10 to the power of 27 years.

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I bet they never said anything that silly. Have you got an actual reference for that or did you make it up?

quote:

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By their estimate, even if the universe is 13 billion light
years old that would not be nearly enough time for one
functional protein to form, much less for one protein
to evolve into another.
​

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Says someone who doesn’t even know that a light year is a measure of distance, not time. But their “estimate” - if it’s even theirs - isn’t worth anything.

quote:

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Surely you can see how irrational Darwinians can be.

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It would be hard to find anyone as irrational as you.

OK, so Axe is Discovery Institute so why go any further? Pander's thumb did thoughSummary

quote:

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To summarize, the claims that have been and will be made by ID proponents regarding protein evolution are not supported by Axe’s work. As I show, it is not appropriate to use the numbers Axe obtains to make inferences about the evolution of proteins and enzymes. Thus, this study does not support the conclusion that functional sequences are extremely isolated in sequence space, or that the evolution of new protein function is an impossibility that is beyond the capacity of random mutation and natural selection.

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Full reportAxe (2004) and the evolution of enzyme function

Getting ready to help at a Christian dance event tonight -- the teacher I assist is involved with this event, so she recruited me to handle the door -- so I am short on time.The thing, candle2, is that in your Message 1785 you demanded of Tangle: In accordance with Pharisee teachings (the Golden Rule, specifically), we must demand the same thing of you.You have repeatedly insisted that you know how life began. Therefore, you must explain to us in detail HOW the first life originated.We would assume that you will say that that happened through purely supernatural means, so you must explain how that works in detail.It's also a sure bet that your "answer" will consist of nothing other than "goddidit!", that God-of-the-Gaps smokescreen that creationists always hide behind. But everybody knows that "goddidit" provides absolutely no explanation of HOW anything happened or works. Therefore, "goddidit" is inadmissible as an answer.You must describe in detail how those supernatural forces work and how they impinge into and affect the natural universe. You must also describe in detail the objective procedure for determining just which god (AKA "supernatural entity") actually did the job.Or you could finally face the truth and admit that you do not know how life began, but rather that you only believe those things (which you have so far refused to concede).Or you could continue to lie to us (by far the most likely outcome), in which case that tells us everything about your pyramid-of-lies religion and Lord-of-Lies god that we could ever need to know.Time for you to stand and deliver! As for the rest of the bullshit that you posted in order to avoid the question, I'll address that later. Suffice to say that creationist probability arguments are among the stupidest of creationist claims. Except perhaps for "giant mud fossils" (a new low even for you).

Tangle, I read in one of your posts that you are a very
educated man. You have like 200 degrees, some
doctorates and some masters.And with all these degrees you cannot figure out that
the beliefs of Darwin are diametrically opposed to that
of God and creation.There is only two ways for life to begin. It is either by
blind luck, or it is by creation.You mention that Darwin has contributed much to the
scientific community.No, he has not. A belief in evolution contributes nothing
to science.Darwinianism is the evolutionary science (it isn't really a
science) of the gaps.Dawwinians (remember that Darwin is the father of the
"jelly-like substance-I get a good laugh out of this) have
monstrously huge gaps in their evolutionary trees.There are no intermediary or transitional fossils. None.Anyone that says so is lying through their teeth.Recently, several biologists were asked if they knew of
examples of one "kind" of organism evolving into another
"kind" of organism.They hee-hawed around but could think of none. One
stated that he could name hundreds of examples,
but was unable to name just one.One of them gave the stickleback fish as an example.
When asked what the stickleback is now, the biologist
replied that it is still a fish.I would say that Darwin has turned these biologists
into mindless idiots.DE's insist that natural selection, guided by survival of
the fittest, has led to the millions of differing organisms
on the earth.Yet, they cannot fully explain what constitutes "fittest."
They cannot say what "fittest" is.They have no good explanation for how new organs
Form.Richard Dawkins tries to explain how the eye could have
developed over time.If everything is by blind and unguided chance, then the
chances of the eye going in the opposite direction is
just as great.For evolution to have gotten us to where we are today
it would have had to happen, not only to mammals but,
to insects, birds, dinos, etc...Darwinians have no answers for the complexities of life.They cannot explain how DNA, which represents an
abstract coding system, and absolutely points to
intelligence, just came to be.Every nucleus of every cell in the human body has two
meters of DNA in a microscopic dot that has the info
needed to build each of us.It would take a very gullible individual to believe that
all this came about by chance.Remember that that the probability of one significant
functional protein happening by chance is 1 to the
64th power.Or 1 in10,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,
000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000.Also, the probability that one protein evolving into
another similar one, based on minor changes would
take:1,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 years.Remember that the protein evolving comes only after the
1 to the 64th power probability of a functional protein
happening.The one protein evolving is barely, barely, barely, barely,
the beginning of life and the myriad forms of it.I quoted Scripture to show that the rise of Britain and
America were foretold centuries before actuality, which
points to a Creator.

quote:

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I quoted Scripture to show that the rise of Britain and
America were foretold centuries before actuality, which
points to a Creator.

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No, you didn’t. If those scriptures refers to anyone today it’s the Samaritans - who are at risk of dying out. Hardly a great success story.

You really ought to make some sort of effort to understand what it is you're complaining about. Evolution has nothing to do with how life began. Most believers have accepted evolution as a fact and understood that how life began is a totally different issue. Darwin is on the side of the creationist. You guys need to make him your friend.

quote:

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With respect to the theological view of the question; this is always painful to me.— I am bewildered.– I had no intention to write atheistically. But I own that I cannot see, as plainly as others do, & as I [should] wish to do, evidence of design & beneficence on all sides of us. There seems to me too much misery in the world. I cannot persuade myself that a beneficent & omnipotent God would have designedly created the Ichneumonidæ with the express intention of their feeding within the living bodies of caterpillars, or that a cat should play with mice. Not believing this, I see no necessity in the belief that the eye was expressly designed. On the other hand I cannot anyhow be contented to view this wonderful universe & especially the nature of man, & to conclude that everything is the result of brute force. I am inclined to look at everything as resulting from designed laws, with the details, whether good or bad, left to the working out of what we may call chance. Not that this notion at all satisfies me. I feel most deeply that the whole subject is too profound for the human intellect. A dog might as well speculate on the mind of Newton.— Let each man hope & believe what he can.

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Charles Darwin

Paulk, Surmaritans are not Israelites. The Assyrians,
which conquered the 10 Northern Tribes of Israel in
721 BC.Assyria, as is true with many conquering nations at that
time, deported natives from their homeland. The
Assyrians replaced the Israelites with people from several
locations.The Samaritans and the Jews despised each other.Neither the land of Samaria nor the Samaritans themselves
were promised a mighty nation and a company of nations.The promises made to the descendants of Ephraim and
Manasseh had not been fulfilled before 721 BC.The promises were to be fulfilled during the last days.Promises made by God of what would befall them is
also recorded in Leviticus, Jeremiah, and several other
books.The prophet Ezekiel, although a Jew, was made a
watchman to the House of Israel and also for the House
of Judah. Ezekiel 2:3,5 & 3:17.Ezekiel, who became a watchman for the House of Israel,
became so over a hundred year after Israel had been
conquered and deported.Many of Ezekiel's visions of/for Israel are for the last days.Because of our abominations and eniquties Ezekiel
records that God would not pity nor show mercy to us.Ezekiel states that God will bring the worst of the heathens
(Gentiles) against us. They will possess our houses and all
that we own.Ezekiel states that the strangers among us is come to
rule over us.Ezekiel says that we will throw our gold and our silver
into the street. They will become worthless. Anyone who
has food to eat will not sell at any price.I can say with certainty that I would give food and water
to anyone who comes to my door. This is what God wants
us to do, if we truly trust him.Israelites will seek a vision and counsel from our
preacher, but they will have none to give.
They will have led us astray.Instead of the truth, Israel has only wanted to hear
soothing words from their religious leaders.Jeremiah states that it is the time of Jacob's (Israel)
trouble. Furthermore, he states that there has never been
a time like it, nor ever shall be. It will be worse than what
the Jews endured under Hitler.This time it will not be only the Jews who go through this. All
of Israel will suffer this fate, especially the English speaking
Israelites, who are descended from Joseph.We were to be a light to the world. We were to exhibit God's
way of life for all to see. We were to be a witness for him.Instead we have become a stench in His nostrils.This time is right at our door.

Paulk, Surmaritans are not Israelites. The Assyrians,
which conquered the 10 Northern Tribes of Israel in
721 BC.Assyria, as is true with many conquering nations at that
time, deported natives from their homeland. The
Assyrians replaced the Israelites with people from several
locations.The Samaritans and the Jews despised each other.Neither the land of Samaria nor the Samaritans themselves
were promised a mighty nation and a company of nations.The promises made to the descendants of Ephraim and
Manasseh had not been fulfilled before 721 BC.The promises were to be fulfilled during the last days.Promises made by God of what would befall them is
also recorded in Leviticus, Jeremiah, and several other
books.The prophet Ezekiel, although a Jew, was made a
watchman to the House of Israel and also for the House
of Judah. Ezekiel 2:3,5 & 3:17.Ezekiel, who became a watchman for the House of Israel,
became so over a hundred year after Israel had been
conquered and deported.Many of Ezekiel's visions of/for Israel are for the last days.Because of our abominations and eniquties Ezekiel
records that God would not pity nor show mercy to us.Ezekiel states that God will bring the worst of the heathens
(Gentiles) against us. They will possess our houses and all
that we own.Ezekiel states that the strangers among us is come to
rule over us.Ezekiel says that we will throw our gold and our silver
into the street. They will become worthless. Anyone who
has food to eat will not sell at any price.I can say with certainty that I would give food and water
to anyone who comes to my door. This is what God wants
us to do, if we truly trust him.Israelites will seek a vision and counsel from our
preacher, but they will have none to give.
They will have led us astray.Instead of the truth, Israel has only wanted to hear
soothing words from their religious leaders.Jeremiah states that it is the time of Jacob's (Israel)
trouble. Furthermore, he states that there has never been
a time like it, nor ever shall be. It will be worse than what
the Jews endured under Hitler.This time it will not be only the Jews who go through this. All
of Israel will suffer this fate, especially the English speaking
Israelites, who are descended from Joseph.We were to be a light to the world. We were to exhibit God's
way of life for all to see. We were to be a witness for him.Instead we have become a stench in His nostrils.This time is right at our door.

quote:

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Paulk, Surmaritans are not Israelites. The Assyrians,
which conquered the 10 Northern Tribes of Israel in
721 BC.

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Indeed they did, but it seems that some people were left there and they were the ancestors of the Samaritans. Nobody else is identifiable as descendants of the people of Israel.

quote:

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The promises made to the descendants of Ephraim and
Manasseh had not been fulfilled before 721 BC.
​

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That’s your problem. But note that the Samaritans claim to be descendants of Ephraim and Manasseh. And there is nobody else. If you are going to claim that the prophecy succeeded you need to actually show that the people you are talking about belong to those tribes. And you can’t do that.

quote:

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We were to be a light to the world. We were to exhibit God's
way of life for all to see. We were to be a witness for him.

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Then maybe you should stop telling falsehoods.