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Author Topic:   The Meaning Of The Trinity
Dredge
Member
Posts: 2850
From: Australia
Joined: 09-06-2016


Message 1681 of 1864 (909901)
04-12-2023 5:26 PM
Reply to: Message 1680 by Tangle
04-12-2023 5:12 PM


Re: Burning The Candle At Both Ends
Tangle writes:
Your Saviour asks more of you though doesn't He? He asks not just that tend begrudgingly to his physical needs, He asks that you love him.
So how do you suggest I should "love" queers?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1680 by Tangle, posted 04-12-2023 5:12 PM Tangle has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1682 by Tangle, posted 04-12-2023 5:41 PM Dredge has replied

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 9489
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 4.8


Message 1682 of 1864 (909902)
04-12-2023 5:41 PM
Reply to: Message 1681 by Dredge
04-12-2023 5:26 PM


Re: Burning The Candle At Both Ends
Dredge writes:
So how do you suggest I should "love" queers?
That's the bit you'll find very hard, being a prejudiced, hate-filled guy seemingly more interested in trying to find loopholes in Christ's teachings and reasons why you can hate than actually following them.
I suggest you start by trying to understand Christ's real message of do as you would be done by and peace and love and see where it takes you.
It shouldn't need an atheist to tell you this, it's all in your book.

Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London. Olen Suomi Soy Barcelona. I am Ukraine.

"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1681 by Dredge, posted 04-12-2023 5:26 PM Dredge has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1683 by Dredge, posted 04-12-2023 5:46 PM Tangle has replied

  
Dredge
Member
Posts: 2850
From: Australia
Joined: 09-06-2016


Message 1683 of 1864 (909903)
04-12-2023 5:46 PM
Reply to: Message 1682 by Tangle
04-12-2023 5:41 PM


Re: Burning The Candle At Both Ends
So you're saying a Christian should "love" queers, but you can't tell me what that actually means.
Fascinating.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1682 by Tangle, posted 04-12-2023 5:41 PM Tangle has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1684 by Tangle, posted 04-12-2023 6:16 PM Dredge has replied

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 9489
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 4.8


Message 1684 of 1864 (909904)
04-12-2023 6:16 PM
Reply to: Message 1683 by Dredge
04-12-2023 5:46 PM


Re: Burning The Candle At Both Ends
Dredge writes:
So you're saying a Christian should "love" queers,
No, I'm telling you what your Saviour, Jesus Christ commands you to do by showing you his words in your book. How you respond to his commandments is your problem to solve - it's your soul and your eternity.
But I do suggest that your behaviour here to date, doesn't seem to coincide with the behaviour he expects from you.
Fascinating.
Isn't it.

Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London. Olen Suomi Soy Barcelona. I am Ukraine.

"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1683 by Dredge, posted 04-12-2023 5:46 PM Dredge has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1685 by Dredge, posted 04-12-2023 8:21 PM Tangle has not replied
 Message 1686 by Dredge, posted 04-12-2023 8:46 PM Tangle has replied

  
Dredge
Member
Posts: 2850
From: Australia
Joined: 09-06-2016


Message 1685 of 1864 (909905)
04-12-2023 8:21 PM
Reply to: Message 1684 by Tangle
04-12-2023 6:16 PM


Re: Burning The Candle At Both Ends
Tangle writes:
But I do suggest that your behaviour here to date, doesn't seem to coincide with the behaviour he expects from you.
You wouldn't know - as far as knowledge of Christiaity is concerned, you're a dunce.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1684 by Tangle, posted 04-12-2023 6:16 PM Tangle has not replied

  
Dredge
Member
Posts: 2850
From: Australia
Joined: 09-06-2016


Message 1686 of 1864 (909906)
04-12-2023 8:46 PM
Reply to: Message 1684 by Tangle
04-12-2023 6:16 PM


Re: Burning The Candle At Both Ends
I noticed you ignored my question in Message 1673.
How do you reconcile Jesus' commandment to "love one another " with his commandment to expel unrepentant sinners from the Church?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1684 by Tangle, posted 04-12-2023 6:16 PM Tangle has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1687 by Tangle, posted 04-13-2023 2:51 AM Dredge has replied

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 9489
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 4.8


(1)
Message 1687 of 1864 (909910)
04-13-2023 2:51 AM
Reply to: Message 1686 by Dredge
04-12-2023 8:46 PM


Re: Burning The Candle At Both Ends
Dredge writes:
I noticed you ignored my question in Message 1673.

How do you reconcile Jesus' commandment to "love one another " with his commandment to expel unrepentant sinners from the Church?
Well lawyer, I think that's a problem for you to resolve. But if you're asking for my advice I would say that instead of picking out an individual line in Matt 18, I suggest you read the whole of Chapter 18 and try to find what Jesus is actually trying to tell you, by instruction and by parable.
The chapter is about who can enter the kingdom of heaven - those who are humble and become like little children - and it ends with the threat of hell for those who do not forgive.
quote:
So My heavenly Father also will do to you if each of you, from his heart, does not forgive his brother his trespasses.”
Throughout the whole of Jesus' teaching, you are commanded to love and to forgive. It's his entire message, are you going to ignore that message lawyer?

Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London. Olen Suomi Soy Barcelona. I am Ukraine.

"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1686 by Dredge, posted 04-12-2023 8:46 PM Dredge has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1688 by Dredge, posted 04-13-2023 9:19 AM Tangle has replied

  
Dredge
Member
Posts: 2850
From: Australia
Joined: 09-06-2016


Message 1688 of 1864 (909917)
04-13-2023 9:19 AM
Reply to: Message 1687 by Tangle
04-13-2023 2:51 AM


Re: Burning The Candle At Both Ends
All you're doing is cherry-picking the verses that suit your argument and ignoring the verses that don't. For example, you deal with Jesus' commandment to expel unrepentant sinners from the Church (Matt 15:17-18) by simply ignoring it.
Your argument fails bcoz it's unbalanced, wilfuly dishonest and lacks integrity.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1687 by Tangle, posted 04-13-2023 2:51 AM Tangle has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1689 by Theodoric, posted 04-13-2023 9:24 AM Dredge has not replied
 Message 1690 by Tangle, posted 04-13-2023 10:09 AM Dredge has replied

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 9076
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 3.7


Message 1689 of 1864 (909919)
04-13-2023 9:24 AM
Reply to: Message 1688 by Dredge
04-13-2023 9:19 AM


Classic fundie
Fundies have never been and will never be accused of having much self-awareness.
Example #67,234
Drudge writes:
Your argument fails bcoz it's unbalanced, wilfuly dishonest and lacks integrity.

What can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence. -Christopher Hitchens

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1688 by Dredge, posted 04-13-2023 9:19 AM Dredge has not replied

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 9489
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 4.8


(3)
Message 1690 of 1864 (909922)
04-13-2023 10:09 AM
Reply to: Message 1688 by Dredge
04-13-2023 9:19 AM


Re: Burning The Candle At Both Ends
Dredge writes:
All you're doing is cherry-picking the verses that suit your argument and ignoring the verses that don't.
That's a difficult argument to make given that I suggested that you read the whole of Matthew Chapter 18 in order to get the full message, whilst you cherry-picked a single line.
Are you doubting that Jesus' core message (and commandment) is to love your neighbour and to forgive their trespasses (you know, that Lord's prayer you chant all the time - "... forgive us our trespasses as we forgive those that trespass against us..." You'll also find it in Matthew 6:12-14 btw)
Your argument fails bcoz it's unbalanced, wilfuly dishonest and lacks integrity.
Like I say, it's your soul not mine, if you think Jesus' core message gives you free rein to hate your fellow man, I suggest you take it up with Him. Real Christians do not believe that and neither do any of the atheists I know either.

Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London. Olen Suomi Soy Barcelona. I am Ukraine.

"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1688 by Dredge, posted 04-13-2023 9:19 AM Dredge has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1691 by Dredge, posted 04-14-2023 1:47 PM Tangle has replied
 Message 1693 by Dredge, posted 04-14-2023 2:38 PM Tangle has not replied

  
Dredge
Member
Posts: 2850
From: Australia
Joined: 09-06-2016


Message 1691 of 1864 (909998)
04-14-2023 1:47 PM
Reply to: Message 1690 by Tangle
04-13-2023 10:09 AM


Re: Burning The Candle At Both Ends
The point is, it's been documented that 93% of the clerical sexual-abuse offences against children in the Catholic Church have been perpetrated by men against boys ... a good enough reason for me to be prejudiced against the queer sub-species.
Thankfully, the Church hierarchy has also developed a prejudice against queers - my understanding is that homosexuals are now barred from becoming priests and religious ("holy orders").
Pope Francis stated,
“In consecrated and priestly life, there’s no room for that kind of affection. Therefore, the church recommends that people with that kind of ingrained tendency should not be accepted into the ministry or consecrated life ...
It’s better for them [homosexuals] to leave the ministry or the consecrated life rather than to live a double life”, lest they "scandalise either their communities or the faithful holy people of God"
Gay people should not join Catholic clergy, Pope Francis says | Pope Francis | The Guardian
But according to your stupid "kum ba yah" version of Christianity, the Church should "love" queers by not being prejudiced against them by weeding them out of the clergy ... thus perpetuating the sexual abuse of boys by sicko pederast clergy.
You live in a dream-world.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1690 by Tangle, posted 04-13-2023 10:09 AM Tangle has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1692 by nwr, posted 04-14-2023 2:34 PM Dredge has replied
 Message 1694 by Tangle, posted 04-14-2023 3:02 PM Dredge has replied

  
nwr
Member
Posts: 6408
From: Geneva, Illinois
Joined: 08-08-2005
Member Rating: 5.1


Message 1692 of 1864 (910001)
04-14-2023 2:34 PM
Reply to: Message 1691 by Dredge
04-14-2023 1:47 PM


Re: Burning The Candle At Both Ends
Thankfully, the Church hierarchy has also developed a prejudice against queers - my understanding is that homosexuals are now barred from becoming priests and religious ("holy orders").

As long as they maintain their celibacy requirement, they will continue to have this problem.

--> -->Fundamentalism - the anti-American, anti-Christian branch of American Christianity <-- <--

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1691 by Dredge, posted 04-14-2023 1:47 PM Dredge has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1699 by Dredge, posted 04-15-2023 11:56 AM nwr has seen this message but not replied

  
Dredge
Member
Posts: 2850
From: Australia
Joined: 09-06-2016


Message 1693 of 1864 (910002)
04-14-2023 2:38 PM
Reply to: Message 1690 by Tangle
04-13-2023 10:09 AM


Re: Burning The Candle At Both Ends
"But Reisman points to figures from a 1991 population study by the U.S. Department of Commerce.
It showed that 8 million girls were abused by age 18 by heterosexual men, a ratio of 1 victim to 11 adult men. However, 6-8 million boys were abused by age 18 by 1-2 million adult homosexuals, a ratio of 3-5 victims for every gay adult." ...
"However, Reisman also cites a past study by Able to bolster her contention that BSA [Boy Scouts of America] has reason to fear admitting homosexuals to the scoutmaster ranks. It found that 150 boys are abused by one male homosexual offender, compared to 19.8 girls by heterosexual offenders.
In a study published in 1987 in the Journal of Interpersonal Violence, Able said homosexuals sexually molest young boys with an incidence five times greater than the molestation of girls." ...
“"We looked at the leading gay travel guide,” Reisman said of her research. “Forty-seven percent of the 139 nations they talked about identified places to find boys. The average heterosexual travel guide is not concerned with finding children.”"
Homosexuals more likely to molest kids, study reports | Baptist Press

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1690 by Tangle, posted 04-13-2023 10:09 AM Tangle has not replied

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 9489
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 4.8


(1)
Message 1694 of 1864 (910003)
04-14-2023 3:02 PM
Reply to: Message 1691 by Dredge
04-14-2023 1:47 PM


Re: Burning The Candle At Both Ends
Dredge writes:
The point is, it's been documented that 93% of the clerical sexual-abuse offences against children in the Catholic Church have been perpetrated by men against boys ... a good enough reason for me to be prejudiced against the queer sub-species.
I think you need to search your soul on this. You earlier gave the oft quoted alibi of loving the sinner but hating the sin. This is never true as you've just proven, you accept that you are prejudice against 'the queer'.
This is a general prejudice against all 'queers' regardless of who they are. In fact just like us 'straights' the overwhelming majority of 'queers' are just as revolted by the actions of these priest abusers as you and I are.
Thankfully, the Church hierarchy has also developed a prejudice against queers - my understanding is that homosexuals are now barred from becoming priests and religious ("holy orders").
This is truly horrible; institutionalised homophobia. And from an organisation that has been shown to be corrupt to its core - moving the abusers around so as not to damage their image.
God created homosexuals too you know.

Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London. Olen Suomi Soy Barcelona. I am Ukraine.

"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1691 by Dredge, posted 04-14-2023 1:47 PM Dredge has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1695 by Dredge, posted 04-14-2023 6:10 PM Tangle has replied

  
Dredge
Member
Posts: 2850
From: Australia
Joined: 09-06-2016


Message 1695 of 1864 (910018)
04-14-2023 6:10 PM
Reply to: Message 1694 by Tangle
04-14-2023 3:02 PM


Re: Burning The Candle At Both Ends
Your repugnant defence of gross immorality (homosexuality = bestiality) is unfortunately reflected in the wider world ... one symptom of a very corrupt, very sick civilization ... that is destined for destruction..

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1694 by Tangle, posted 04-14-2023 3:02 PM Tangle has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1696 by Tangle, posted 04-14-2023 6:15 PM Dredge has replied

  
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