when Jesus said "upon this Rock I will build my church" HE was referring to himself.
Stop talking nonsense. Jesus begins the sentence (v.18) with "And I tell you, you are Peter", so Jesus was clearly referring to Peter, not himself. Your reading of the sentence is senseless and twisted. From v.17-19, Jesus is speaking to Peter.
The church was built upon Petra, not Petros.
"The full import of the words which Jesus addressed to Peter can best be appreciated in the Aramaic which is the language which Jesus spoke. That Jesus spoke Aramaic in this particular dialogue with Peter can be demonstrated based on internal evidence in Scriptures. The fact that Jesus said to him “Simon Bar-Jona” proves that Jesus was speaking Aramaic. In Aramaic, “Bar” means son and “Jona” means John thus “Simon Bar-Jona” is equivalent to “Simon son of John.” There are other New Testament passages which records Jesus speaking in Aramaic (see Matthew 27:46; Mark 15:34). In Aramaic the disputed passage is rendered: “Thou art Peter [ = Kepha] and upon this rock [ = Kepha] I will build my Church” (Matthew 16:18). When this passage is translated to Greek the word Petros was used for Kepha to reflect the masculine gender of Peter thus it becomes “Thou art Peter [ = Petros] and upon this rock [ = Kepha] I will build my Church.” In Aramaic “Kepha” means a large immovable rock. This is the name which Jesus gave to Peter (John 1:42)."
Furthermore, in Koine Greek (the dialect of the New Testament), "petros" and "petra" mean exactly the same thing ... they are simply masculine and feminine expressions of the same word.
BTW, the Tooth Fairy's dress is pink and sky blue - anyone who says differently is an ignoramus, a fool and an imbecile,
The premise of the British sci-fi comedy, Red Dwarf (1988-present through a number of revivals) was:
quote:The series follows low-ranking technician Dave Lister, who awakens after being in suspended animation for three million years to find that he is the last living human, and that he is alone on the mining spacecraft Red Dwarf—save for a hologram of his deceased bunkmate Arnold Rimmer and "Cat", a life form which evolved from Lister's pregnant cat.
Well, it turns out that those cats created a society with a religion, the story of which is told in the fourth episode, Waiting for God. One of the show's early mysteries was why Cat was the sole survivor of his species, Felis sapiens: most of them were wiped out in a religious war, the survivors of which left in separate shuttles.
Here is an examination of that story of their religion:
Basically, Lister's dream was to build and run a fast food stand in Fiji. He had told his cat all about that and she, against all human prejudice about cats, was listening and remembered. She told those stories to her kittens as they did to theirs and so on, generation after generation, until the religion of The Lister developed. That religion taught that the after life was in Fiji, where they would serve The Lister and help him run his hot dog stand. And they would all wear paper hats ... .
Yeah, those paper hats were a problem. One group believed that those hats would be blue, but others believed that they would be red. That led to a bitter Schism which in turn led to a violent religious war.
As Dave Lister learns this story, he is appalled by almost everything in it. His reaction to the blue-versus-red hat controversy was (quoting from memory): "That's the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard! They were going to be green!"
This should help you (singular) to realize why we normals are always laughing at you (plural) fighting with each other over such meaningless minutiae. Not that it would ever get you to start thinking, but the rest of us will just smile and nod.
Time to leave for our monthly skeptics brunch. To quote Ian Shoales (see Message 2279), "I gotta go."
The basic belief regarding the Trinity is that a Creator of all seen and unseen became a man in order to relate to humans, died and rose from the dead to redeem us from our freewilled (yet innocent) mistake of trusting the snake (ye shall be as gods) and after leaving left the Holy Spirit (an omniscient presence) and thus the never ending mythos (for skeptics). My question is this: It seems ass if every other mythos is eventually discarded by humans except the Christian one. Of course some of you have thrown "it" away and believed your own critically thinking skeptics, including yourselves. Tangle even claims that Christianity is dying a slow yet steady death globally...though the jury is out on that one.
So why do some of us cling to this belief so adamantly?
Tangle even claims that Christianity is dying a slow yet steady death globally...though the jury is out on that one.
It's not a claim, it's a fact and the jury came in on it years ago.
The decline of Christianity in the Western world is the decreasing Christian affiliation in the Western world. While most countries in the Western world were historically almost exclusively Christian, the post-World War II era has seen developed countries with modern, secular educational facilities shifting towards post-Christian, secular, globalized, multicultural and multifaith societies. While Christianity is currently the predominant religion in Latin America,[1] Europe,[2] Canada[3][4] and the United States,[5] the religion is declining in many of these areas, including Western Europe,[6][7] North America,[8] and Oceania. A decline in Christianity among countries in Latin America's Southern Cone has also contributed to a rise in irreligion in Latin America.[9]
Pew Research Center (PEW) has found a retention rate among Western European Christians closer to 83% (ranging from 57% in the Netherlands to 91% in Austria),[2] however, the overwhelming majority of those who have left Christianity in Western Europe now identify as religiously unaffiliated.[2] More recent study published in 2022 by Pew Research Center, have found a retention rate among American Christians closer to 67%, and cited that the decline of Christianity is primarily due to people leaving Christianity and choosing to have no religious affiliation (rather than due to people converting to other religions).[10] Pew Research Center projects that Christians will make up less than half of the American population by 2070, with estimated ranges for that year falling between 35% and 46% of the American population (down from 64% in 2022 and from 91% in 1976).[10]
Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London. Olen Suomi Soy Barcelona. I am Ukraine.
"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed. Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved." - Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.
I glad you've got something to laugh at ... since, as an atheist, all you've got to look forward to is old age, sickness and death. Laugh while you still can.
Dredge, Peter was petros-a piece of the rock. Jesus only is Petra. Jesus clearly stated that Petra was who He would build His house on.
Matthew 16 is clearly about Jesus being the Christ, the Son of the living God. It's focus is on featuring the truths about Jesus.
The RCC wants to make Peter the focal point of Matthew 16.
The RCC has theoretically tried to make Peter the rock. The rest of the NT declares that Christ is the rock.
The RCC's view is not the patristic view of the first few centuries. Historically, the assertion that the Church was built on Peter began several centuries after Peter's death.
Even if Peter were the rock that the Church was built on, which He clearly isn't, how would that necessitate papal succession?
Jesus is the Rock of ages; the Rock of salvation; the Rock od deliverance.
Peter was merely a small rock built atop the bedrock of someone much bigger than himself.
The gates of hell will not prevail against the Church (Matt 16:28).
In a hole in the ground there lived a hobbit. (Tolkein. Ch.1)
Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London. Olen Suomi Soy Barcelona. I am Ukraine.
"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed. Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved." - Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.
You don't even know what it is or where it can be found.
Hell, Dredge, even an atheist can answer that one.
The church is the emotion of inclusion self-generated by the religious believer. As with all emotion it is found in your head. As with all religion it is fantasy.
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