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Author Topic:   The Biblical God Incompatible With Big Bang.
Greatest I am
Member (Idle past 273 days)
Posts: 1676
Joined: 01-24-2007


Message 121 of 149 (380874)
01-29-2007 9:28 AM
Reply to: Message 112 by Buzsaw
01-28-2007 10:55 PM


Re: Many bb
When i saw God I did not SEE much of anything. He does not have a physical form that I could discern. Neither did I for that mater.
Regards
DL

This message is a reply to:
 Message 112 by Buzsaw, posted 01-28-2007 10:55 PM Buzsaw has replied

Replies to this message:
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jar
Member (Idle past 393 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 122 of 149 (380878)
01-29-2007 9:54 AM
Reply to: Message 107 by Buzsaw
01-28-2007 8:20 PM


First off GOD is NOT the Biblical God (or Biblical Gods even)
Your problem is that Percy, Jar, Phat and a number of you believe this spirit exists as well as his son Jesus whom their Bible declares to be with God at this time. If this spirit being exists with his son and other spirit beings, where was he existing during and before the singularity if there was not outside of the singularity? What's so silly about that? The discussion isn't silly. You appear to want the problem to go away rather than to admit the problem exists. The universe is suppose to include everything that exists as I understand science on that count.
Well Buz, the fact is that you know nothing about Science, less about Theology than you know about Science and far less about Christianity than you know about Theology.
First off GOD is not the "Biblical God". If GOD exists, then GOD is GOD, no qualifiers, no limiting labels.
The Bible is but one book that tries to envision GOD, one Map, and is NOT the Territory itself.
Questions like "where was he existing during and before the singularity if there was not outside of the singularity?" are not just silly, they are stupid. GOD Himself summed it up rather nicely in "I Am!"
GOD is and was and will be.
GOD is not matter.
GOD is not body.
While the Universe may well be within GOD, GOD is not bounded.
Why must you continue to try to make GOD small, insignificant, picayune, trivial, inane?

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
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Greatest I am
Member (Idle past 273 days)
Posts: 1676
Joined: 01-24-2007


Message 123 of 149 (380882)
01-29-2007 10:22 AM
Reply to: Message 113 by johnfolton
01-28-2007 11:33 PM


Re: Many bb
Very interesting clips. It appears we are on the right track in science.
They showed the absorption of galaxies in their clip.
I saw a larger scale where many galaxies were in flux within one large system going to absorption with another.
Regards
DL

This message is a reply to:
 Message 113 by johnfolton, posted 01-28-2007 11:33 PM johnfolton has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 125 by johnfolton, posted 01-29-2007 5:09 PM Greatest I am has replied

  
Greatest I am
Member (Idle past 273 days)
Posts: 1676
Joined: 01-24-2007


Message 124 of 149 (380883)
01-29-2007 10:27 AM
Reply to: Message 115 by Archer Opteryx
01-29-2007 4:15 AM


Re: blue true dream of sky
Correct. Truth is every thing.
Regards
DL

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johnfolton 
Suspended Member (Idle past 5591 days)
Posts: 2024
Joined: 12-04-2005


Message 125 of 149 (381048)
01-29-2007 5:09 PM
Reply to: Message 123 by Greatest I am
01-29-2007 10:22 AM


Re: Many bb
I saw a larger scale where many galaxies were in flux within one large system going to absorption with another.
While I personally don't believe your a prophet however find it interesting that you too have problems with the big bang theory.
Glad you appreciated the video, etc...
Edited by Charley, : No reason given.
Edited by Charley, : No reason given.
Edited by Charley, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 123 by Greatest I am, posted 01-29-2007 10:22 AM Greatest I am has replied

Replies to this message:
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Buzsaw
Inactive Member


Message 126 of 149 (381148)
01-29-2007 11:55 PM
Reply to: Message 121 by Greatest I am
01-29-2007 9:28 AM


Re: Many bb
Then you didn't see God. If you had likely you'd either be blind or dead. LOL.

BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW ---- Jesus said, "When these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads, for your redemption draws near." Luke 21:28

This message is a reply to:
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Buzsaw
Inactive Member


Message 127 of 149 (381151)
01-30-2007 12:03 AM
Reply to: Message 115 by Archer Opteryx
01-29-2007 4:15 AM


Re: blue true dream of sky
AO writes:
Buz shrinks his deity to small material size, like a human. You inflate yourself to grand cosmic proportions, like a god.
The nerve! You people have rendered him essentially a nonexistent subhuman, a blatant liar, doing nothing, no place to exist and totally impotent (abe: whereas Buz has praised him in his rightful state of majesty of the universe, creating and managing it all from his glorious headquarters in the universe called Heaven.
Edited by Buzsaw, : No reason given.

BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW ---- Jesus said, "When these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads, for your redemption draws near." Luke 21:28

This message is a reply to:
 Message 115 by Archer Opteryx, posted 01-29-2007 4:15 AM Archer Opteryx has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 128 by PaulK, posted 01-30-2007 2:43 AM Buzsaw has not replied
 Message 134 by Archer Opteryx, posted 01-30-2007 11:34 AM Buzsaw has replied

  
PaulK
Member
Posts: 17822
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 2.3


Message 128 of 149 (381168)
01-30-2007 2:43 AM
Reply to: Message 127 by Buzsaw
01-30-2007 12:03 AM


Re: blue true dream of sky
quote:
The nerve! You people have rendered him essentially a nonexistent subhuman, a blatant liar, doing nothing, no place to exist and totally impotent (abe: whereas Buz has praised him in his rightful state of majesty of the universe, creating [except for space because he's just not up to that job - PAK] and managing it all from his glorious headquarters in the universe called Heaven.
{A correction has been added since the original contradicted the OP}
So according to you it belittles God to say that he is capable of creating the Universe - all of it - while claiming that he is incapable of that is praise.
That IS your point of the OP. God cannot create the entire universe. Because Buzsaw has decreed that God is a physical being. And it says so in the Bible because Buzsaw has decreed it - never mind what the Bible actually says, that gets in the way of the Word of Buzsaw. It seems pretty clear whose "glory and majesty" you want to promote - and it isn't God's.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 127 by Buzsaw, posted 01-30-2007 12:03 AM Buzsaw has not replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 129 of 149 (381179)
01-30-2007 5:54 AM
Reply to: Message 101 by Buzsaw
01-28-2007 6:56 PM


Beliefs, Origins, and Theories
Buzsaw writes:
The problem is with the information your theists claim to have which leads back to the singularity. It leaves the BB theist with no before and no outside of for the Biblical god Jehovah and things around him to exist. The BB alegedly was a submicroscopic bit of space containing all the energy and space the universe now consists of. The only place for Jehovah and things described around him is within the submicroscopid bit of space superdensely compacted in the hot speck.
Here is my belief: When God imagines, God creates. God has nothing to do with the singularity, unless you are a Pantheist. God imagined and created long before (if time has any meaning in this scenario) You or I were even thought of...before elements even had properties...before words had meanings. God is, in my belief, the uncaused first cause.
Buzsaw writes:
Your problem is that Percy, Jar, Phat and a number of you believe this spirit exists as well as his son Jesus whom their Bible declares to be with God at this time. If this spirit being exists with his son and other spirit beings, where was he existing during and before the singularity if there was not outside of the singularity?
Jesus and God are One. Jesus is and was Gods character in human form.
Whether or not anyone can define and speculate the properties, parameters, and characteristics of God is irrelevant. God is God, regardless of any definitions that we humans attach. (IMB, anyway) And I will even go so far to say that God is not contained within my belief. God transcends anything that I can imagine. God transcends any properties assigned. IMB, Jesus is Gods character, but if God wants to extrapolate the I AM ness of the I AM, God is certainly going to do so....no matter what my Bible teachers have taught me and no matter what I or You or Anyone else believes. Oh....and just for clarification, IMB There is no God and Jesus and other Spirit Beings. There is basically two spirits. One of them is the Creator. (so there is but One Spirit) in that He was, He is, and He always will be.
The other impostor spirit is only allowed to exist as a distinction in definition. he once was, now is not, and yet is for those whose names have not been written in the Book Of Life. (Of course, this is my personal belief, and was shaped by my Bible reading and understanding. I await further clarification from God on this matter.
AbE: Upon further reflection, I believe that all things were created by Jesus..as representative of Gods character...(thus by God)
so if God were to have a body, that body would be Jesus. I suppose that IF God wanted to have a body apart from Jesus, God could certainly do so. I stick with my belief that God is Spirit, however.
Perhaps I am becoming a Oneness Pentecostal, here. I always thought of myself as Trinitarian, yet find it hard to grasp the concept...(although it is very believable to me)
Edited by Phat, : clarification

Convictions are very different from intentions. Convictions are something God gives us that we have to do. Intentions are things that we ought to do, but we never follow through with them.
* * * * * * * * * *

"Atheism is so senseless. When I look at the solar system. I see the earth at the right distance from the sun to receive the proper amounts of heat and light. This did not happen by chance."-
--Sir Isaac Newton

This message is a reply to:
 Message 101 by Buzsaw, posted 01-28-2007 6:56 PM Buzsaw has not replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 130 of 149 (381182)
01-30-2007 6:37 AM
Reply to: Message 106 by Buzsaw
01-28-2007 8:02 PM


A Matter Of Belief
Buzsaw writes:
1. My faith in God is based on the fact that I see the Biblical account of him as proven to be credible. When the "holes that secular science has yet to explain" essentially cancel out the Biblical god leaving him without an area of existence and rendering him temporal, I must choose which I consider to be the most credible. The Biblical account wins over the BB thermodynamically and on almost all accounts, imo.
2. All powerful? Again the Biblical god Jehovah is the power god creating, designing, managing the whole universe today, yesterday and forever whereas the BB god does nothing but watch, has no area to exist in and couldn't have existed more than a few billion years.
Let me see if I understand you correctly. You maintain that a scientist and/or a cosmological (as opposed to Biblical) Creationist limit the concept of God by our vain imaginations as to how things came to be...despite the scientific disciplines of some of us and despite the belief that His Spirit is within some of us.
In other words, according to your belief, the Bible explains everything and is a proper place to start. While I won't disagree that In The Beginning was the Word...I believe that God won't punish us for thinking. We just have to be careful whether or not we are glorifying His imagination/creative insight imparted into us, or whether we are vainly speculating by not considering Him as a proper source.
Does that sum it up?

This message is a reply to:
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Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 131 of 149 (381184)
01-30-2007 6:44 AM
Reply to: Message 122 by jar
01-29-2007 9:54 AM


Re: First off GOD is NOT the Biblical God (or Biblical Gods even)
IF God exists, God surely meant for us to use our brains. I won't limit God to the Biblical God either, but as you know much of my understanding and interpretation comes from there.
I fear that by reading every book (every map) it will only confuse me as I explore the territory. I suppose that God is right here with me, however...so I need not worry.
Some scientists would maintain that in a philosophical discussion such as this, defining God places limitations on speculations, theories, and beliefs. How can we define love, omnipotence, and unbounded majesty?
As Paul K points out, nailing down a definition only brings glory to ourselves...and not to God.
I believe, in the final analysis, that we are all free to voice our opinions and beliefs...no matter how silly, trivial, or inane. Whatever will be already is, anyway.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 122 by jar, posted 01-29-2007 9:54 AM jar has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 133 by Greatest I am, posted 01-30-2007 9:26 AM Phat has not replied

  
Greatest I am
Member (Idle past 273 days)
Posts: 1676
Joined: 01-24-2007


Message 132 of 149 (381218)
01-30-2007 9:05 AM
Reply to: Message 125 by johnfolton
01-29-2007 5:09 PM


Re: Many bb
I did not intend to show doubt about the big bang. The big bang did happen. The view I was given showed enough space for multiple big bangs.
Regards
DL

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 Message 125 by johnfolton, posted 01-29-2007 5:09 PM johnfolton has not replied

  
Greatest I am
Member (Idle past 273 days)
Posts: 1676
Joined: 01-24-2007


Message 133 of 149 (381222)
01-30-2007 9:26 AM
Reply to: Message 131 by Phat
01-30-2007 6:44 AM


Re: First off GOD is NOT the Biblical God (or Biblical Gods even)
It is always good to remember the times and the level of sophistication that the writers of the Bible possessed. We tend to spend more time discussing words than the philosophy of the Bible.
I note that you use the word if when you speak of God's existence. Be assured. He is.
What I really wanted to say though is That God was watching as we had our local singularity. There is plenty of room out there for many singularities. I thing that time is older than we think. By this I mean the time of God's existence, not our local time.
We wonder if there is other life in the universe. There must be if there are that many more planets than we suspect, in fact you could probably use the word infinite number of earths.

This message is a reply to:
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Archer Opteryx
Member (Idle past 3597 days)
Posts: 1811
From: East Asia
Joined: 08-16-2006


Message 134 of 149 (381247)
01-30-2007 11:34 AM
Reply to: Message 127 by Buzsaw
01-30-2007 12:03 AM


headquarters?
Buz: (emphases mine)
his rightful state of majesty of the universe, creating and managing it all from his glorious headquarters in the universe called Heaven.
How can God create the universe from a spot in the universe?
__
Edited by Archer Opterix, : HTML.

Archer
All species are transitional.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 127 by Buzsaw, posted 01-30-2007 12:03 AM Buzsaw has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 137 by Buzsaw, posted 02-01-2007 8:16 PM Archer Opteryx has replied

  
Archer Opteryx
Member (Idle past 3597 days)
Posts: 1811
From: East Asia
Joined: 08-16-2006


Message 135 of 149 (381267)
01-30-2007 1:01 PM
Reply to: Message 103 by cavediver
01-28-2007 7:21 PM


Material God

Some folks praise Me, some folks pray t'Me
I think they're OK
If they can't fix My broken telly
I just walk away
They cajole and they extol
But they can't see the light, that's right
The Man Upstairs with real white hairs
Is your true Mister Right
'Cause we are living in a material realm
And I am a Material God
Living in a material realm
And I am a Material God
Some folks chant and some recant
And that's all right with Me
If they can't scratch Me where I itch
I have to let them be
Some folks transcend, some folks knee-bend
But I don't give them room
The folks who darn My holy socks
Escape their final doom
'Cause we are living in a material realm
And I am a Material God
Yes, we are living in a material realm
And I am a Material God
Some folks sublimate, some gesticulate
I don't let them in
If they can't massage My aching feet
It's their tough mortal sin
Devotees come, devotees go
And that's all right, you see
It's crowded up here as it is--
More elbow room for Me!
'Cause we are living in a material realm
And I am a Material God
Living in a material realm
'Cause I am a Material God
A material, not ethereal, a material, not ethereal . . .
___
Edited by Archer Opterix, : Capitalization.

Archer
All species are transitional.

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