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Author | Topic: Is it right to preach to people? | |||||||||||||||||||||||
Zealot Inactive Member |
It doesnt matter if it is 4 times a year, 4 times a day or 4 times every ten years, once is too much.
Once is too much ? Little harsh
Use of lies is always a xian tactic, it is in their nature.
So you were a practising liar for 20 years ? Why should I believe you now ?
The most inmportant years for learning are between about 3-6 years old, what you learn at this age from trusted adults, such as your parents,is difficult to let go off. Children usually believe that what their parents say is true, obviously it depends on the intensity of the forcing of the parent beliefs on to the child, but you can rest assured there are many xians who suffocate their kids with THEIR beliefs, it isnt even the kids belief.
I believed in Santa Clause from 3-6. Same with the Easter Bunny and Buck Rogers . I don't think it affected me too much You dont think I never questioned Christianity ?
I know literally hundred of kids aged from 11-16 who believe that every word of xianity is true, so what's your point?
You live next to a church
The thing is LOL your parents dont see Santa Clause as the saviour of the universe, they do see that other fairytale character Jesus as a saviour though
Hehe, you must have been a right fool to believe in a fairytale for such a long time. Now however you are wise...
The exploitation of third wrold populations by Xian missionaries. The exploitation of the hungry in the USA and UK at Xian soup kitchens.
Thats right, setup clinics and soup kitchens so we can exploit them huh ?
Yes it is their choice, however forcing them to sit through a sermon before you feed them is exploitation. Building a school solely with the purpose of learning someone to speak English so they can read the Bible is exploitation.
How many 3-6 year olds go to church ? I do know many 14-18 year old's were forced through evolutionary Biology lessons.
Evolution is arguably the most authenticated and documented fact in the history of mankind.
You could be a biology teacher too.
I dont think there is a highschool student in Scotland who thinks that evolution is 'just' a theory. Maybe you need to go back to school.
I believe you called it 'indoctrination'. It's called a Theory, but its really a fact!
Since I dont have any kids I cannot tell them anything. LOL when was the last time you met an evangelical atheist!
Ok, ASSUME you have kids. Telling them there is no God , between the ages of 3-6. Is that not indoctrination ?
This isn't what evolution is about, maybe you should have listened to your science teachers.
How could they explain it ? Perhaps tell me aliens put DNA on earth ?
Why would it make a difference? What about a lecture on the facts against gravity or a lecture on the scientific absurdities in the Bible. Alecture on the facts against a 6000 year old universe, a lecture against all varieties of beetles evolving from one pair in 4500 years, the fact that they would be evolving quicker than they reproduced, would lectures highlighting the absurdity of the Bible not have made a difference to your education?
Hehe, you had faith that God could create the Entire universe, the vast complexities of DNA, that every hair on your head was counted for, but ofcourse God was unable to do anything that denied the scientific model of nature ? You remind me of some of the Israelites...
It is rude to disturb me and renmind me that this fantasy is still being circulated around the world. It reminds me how pathetic a belief system xianity is, it reminds me of 20 wasted years, it reminds me of the deaths of hundreds of thousands of Jews, it reminds me of how embarrassingly naive humans can be......
If it's so disgustingly annoyed by it, why do you spend half your time on a forum discussing Creation and Christianity ? Z
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Brian Member (Idle past 4979 days) Posts: 4659 From: Scotland Joined: |
LOL,
Once is too much ? Little harsh Once now is yes.
So you were a practising liar for 20 years ? Why should I believe you now ? Because I am no longer a Xian, logic isnot your strong point is it?
I believed in Santa Clause from 3-6. Same with the Easter Bunny and Buck Rogers . I don't think it affected me too much You dont think I never questioned Christianity ? I thnk it has affected you a lot, there's one fantasy figure you still believe in.
You live next to a church And I teach religious studies! Which brings me into the most contact with Xians.
Hehe, you must have been a right fool to believe in a fairytale for such a long time. Now however you are wise Yup, at least now I am mature enough to realise that I was a fool, some people never learn this LOL.
Thats right, setup clinics and soup kitchens so we can exploit them huh ? Yes, this is an established fact.
How many 3-6 year olds go to church ? I do know many 14-18 year old's were forced through evolutionary Biology lessons. I dont know how many 3-6 years olds go to church, I bet a fair proportion of 'saved' xian parents will be dragging their 3-6 year olds along to church. How many infants rush down to the church to get baptised before they can walk or talk? (child abuse)
You could be a biology teacher too. I actually quite fancy doing a science degree, but I don't have the time. I seriously thught that I was very ignorant about science, but now I realise I actually know a great deal more than I first thought.
I believe you called it 'indoctrination'. It's called a Theory, but its really a fact! LOL I'm not going to spell it out again, try studying what evolutionists claim for a minute and keep away from ICR or AiG.
Ok, ASSUME you have kids. Telling them there is no God , between the ages of 3-6. Is that not indoctrination ? You are assuming that I would tell them that there is no God, why would I do that, that would make me as evil as the xians who do that.
How could they explain it ? Perhaps tell me aliens put DNA on earth ? Again, your ignorance of evolution is apparent, evolution does not attempt to explain the origin of life, go look up what evolution claims to explain.
You remind me of some of the Israelites The ancestors of the people that Xians tried to wipe off the face of the Earth you mean? [q]If it's so disgustingly annoyed by it, why do you spend half your time on a forum discussing Creation and Christianity
[/qs] I choose to come here, that's the difference. I do not spend that much time here, and any discussions I get involved in is more than likely related to archaeology, although I do put my tuppence worth in now and then at other threads. Why do you come here to discuss evolution when, despite your scientific background, you know absolutely nothing about it? Brian [This message has been edited by Brian, 11-17-2003] [This message has been edited by Brian, 11-17-2003]
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apostolos Inactive Member |
quote: It really doesn't matter who likes it or who doesn't. This is because such a statement only gives us a relative answer. If there is to be an absolute answer (i.e. definitively right or wrong) then we must search in the realm of absolutes. So then, personal distates, or tastes, for preaching or evangelistic efforts can not be any kind of measurement of rightness or wrongness. Neither can examples that are overwhelmingly negative (or positive for that matter) because they, individually, do nor make an accurate representation of the whole. Furthermore, the comparisons made by others are also invalid. The reason is because I have been subjected to numerous expressions of socialistic and communistic dogma. I did not go seeking these, nor was I presented the opportunity to make the propigation of the ideas stop. I was only given a choice: listen, or walk away (to the best of my knowledge I have not been strapped to a chair and mentally force-fed anything). Another point, and please excuse me for seeming to state the obvious, is that the argument of "brainwashed children" can not be used. At least not at this time. Because the issue raised is whether preaching is right or wrong. At this point in the discussion we, as a group of fellow debaters, have concluded it may be totally wrong or it may be totally right. In that spectrum there is the possibility that it could be right, but just not suitable for certain age groups. I will briefly illustrate by saying there is obvious material out there in any public media outlet that I would not want my children (if I had any) to view. So then, we must establish first whether preaching is right or wrong. If it is wrong, then it is not suitable for any age group. If it is right, then the above state possibility exists, as well as many others. And for emphasis let me reitterate that the answer to this question must be sought in terms of the absolute. Now before you begin by saying I am begging the question, let me just go ahead and tell you that I probably am. But please see that I am doing so to ensure this discussion stays on track and doesn't fly off into some wild left field tangent. I have several things I would like to say about the matter from my perspective. However, I want to make sure there is a desire to pursue this question in a logical and orderly manner first. Nuff said. As always, I am very interested in any response to what I have put forth. Russ
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IrishRockhound Member (Idle past 4456 days) Posts: 569 From: Ireland Joined: |
Thanks - I was just about to post to remind people about the topic at hand.
I didn't ask the question to get an absolute answer - more to have people discuss the merits and flaws of religious preaching.
quote: So, we can't use our own experiences? Fair enough. I hope everyone can agree with this. I don't really agree with preaching in general. If people are interested in something then they should have the choice to seek it out for themselves, instead of having it forced upon them. This goes for more than just religion - in school I was forced to do subjects I disliked, instead of others that I enjoyed. (Yes, I know I'm using personal experiences - it's just to illustrate the point. I am not offering it as evidence.) Children are a special case, however, because frequently they are not mentally mature enough to make their own decisions regarding religion. I'm not sure if they should be considered in this discussion. The Rock Hound
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apostolos Inactive Member |
quote: It seems to me that any kind of answer to the question that is not absolute will bring no resolution of the issue. Would that not just be everyone standing around giving their opinion? I know that really is the purpose behind a discussion board. However there should be some measure of objectivity to it. Especially when the Bible claims that God is always right and never wrong, and that preaching is actually commanded in the Bible. So it seems preaching is either right or wrong, as opposed to both/and. Having said this let me deal with one other matter.
quote:I stated that to exclude the possibility of someone passing on an idea as truth simply because of an experience of their own. One of the rules of logic (at least under the teacher I had) was "nothing is true simply because another person says it is." And the base thought is this: You had an experience? I was not there to have that experience, so I can neither validate, nor invalidate that experience. I will say now, in case it is not clear, that I will be representing the position that preaching is right. Though I must qualify that with "when the right message is being preached in the right way." I am not so interested in "pontificating" about my position, but rather dealing with any questions and seeming inconsistencies between the divine rightness of preaching and the way it is carried out. I am not very interested in name-calling, insults, or posts that are really just attacks, cuz ad hominem just aint cool. If my approach to this discussion is different than from what you originally intended, please let me know and I will be sure to change my approach or stay out of the way. Russ
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phil Guest |
quote: Yes. Okay, just a little bit of humor. I don't know about other "Christians," but I do not "condemn" people. Now, in an appropriate situation (i.e. if someone asks, if someone is willing to listen) I will share what I believe to be the truth with them. This does include the belief that those who do not accept Christ are, according to Scripture, destined for Hell (Romans 3:23, 6:23). It is important to keep in mind, though, that I am in no position to make a judgment call on someone's salvation. For this reason, I will never say, "You are going to Hell", but instead say, "Those who do not. . .will go to Hell" (again quoting Scripture, but using a more implicit approach).
quote: I realize that there are some truly mean-spirited, hateful people out there who consider themselves Christians. It is unfortunate that you have had to come into contact with some. These types of things are unacceptable and are the main reason I try to distance myself from the term "Christian."
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Zealot Inactive Member |
Because I am no longer a Xian, logic isnot your strong point is it?
Ouch
I thnk it has affected you a lot, there's one fantasy figure you still believe in.
You have no right to talk about Evolution man that way.
Yup, at least now I am mature enough to realise that I was a fool, some people never learn this LOL.
He who claims to be a fool...
Thats right, setup clinics and soup kitchens so we can exploit them huh ?
Yes, this is an established fact.
This could be why I dont buy any of your 'other' facts. Think about it.
You are assuming that I would tell them that there is no God, why would I do that, that would make me as evil as the xians who do that.
But why not , indoctrination of facts surely ?
Again, your ignorance of evolution is apparent, evolution does not attempt to explain the origin of life, go look up what evolution claims to explain.
LOL, yeah it conveniently chooses to avoid areas where it holds no ground !
Why do you come here to discuss evolution when, despite your scientific background, you know absolutely nothing about it?
I hope you dont consider 3 years of high school biology a scientific background
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Dan Carroll Inactive Member |
quote: And how come the theory of evolution doesn't include any delicious recipes for strawberry shortcake? It's because the evolutionists know that delicious strawberry shortcake is the hole in their little religion! Evolution cannot account for delicious strawberry shortcake!
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MrHambre Member (Idle past 1413 days) Posts: 1495 From: Framingham, MA, USA Joined: |
For God's sake be careful, Dan. He's using smilies!
------------------The dark nursery of evolution is very dark indeed. Brad McFall
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Brian Member (Idle past 4979 days) Posts: 4659 From: Scotland Joined: |
LOL,
You have no right to talk about Evolution man that way. What on earth is 'evolution man'!
He who claims to be a fool... To 'have' been a fool is more accurate, some of us can escape the delusion
This could be why I dont buy any of your 'other' facts. Think about it. I don't have to think about it, you are a typical Xian, you only see what you want to see. If you are unaware of missionaries exploiting situations then you need to get your head out of the sand.
But why not , indoctrination of facts surely ? Jeezus, I even qualified my statement, in my statement!
LOL, yeah it conveniently chooses to avoid areas where it holds no ground LOL but it is not the study of the origins of life, this is like complaining because potato farmers do not tell you how to grow oranges.
I hope you dont consider 3 years of high school biology a scientific background Well I was being sarcastic, however: That it takes a subscription to New Scientist and alot of research on evolution and the 'other side' of science for me to rethink what I once accepted You conveniently forgot to mention how ' a lot of research on evolution' made you rethink your position. I think maybe you should go back to being an evolutionist because you are rejecting it without knowing exaclty what it is. Maybe you can tell us a defintion of evolution from your intensive research? Since we are drifting off topic here, I will open a new thread entitled, 'a creationists definition of evolution', you can inform everyone there of what your definition of evolution is. You should be able to tie me in knots as I have had no scoentific traning at all, not even a subscription to New Scientist! Brian.
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Zealot Inactive Member |
What on earth is 'evolution man'!
Dunno.. he's a very mythical figure I believed in
I don't have to think about it, you are a typical Xian, you only see what you want to see. If you are unaware of missionaries exploiting situations then you need to get your head out of the sand.
I dont even know what an Xian is! I know what a Christian is. I am a typical Christian ? PS: Only the pure of heart can see God. That might have been what was missing from your days as a Christian. But then you admitted to being a fool and liar. How you are still surprised you didn't find God I understand not.
LOL but it is not the study of the origins of life, this is like complaining because potato farmers do not tell you how to grow oranges.
Hehe, you sound like a farmer that plants potatoes, big and small, round and odd shaped, then exclaims 'See , there is no GOD!' You still fail to explain where the seed came from, but heck that is not important! PS: Evolutionary theory would not have to disagree with my beliefs, I just dont happen to believe in it. Could never understand why there were 2 different theories for avian evolution, afterall surely it must be obvious ?
Maybe you can tell us a defintion of evolution from your intensive research?
I think you can find one on google. Beware, you might find more than one! Search for 'definition evolution'
Since we are drifting off topic here, I will open a new thread entitled, 'a creationists definition of evolution', you can inform everyone there of what your definition of evolution is. You should be able to tie me in knots as I have had no scoentific traning at all, not even a subscription to New Scientist!
Hehe, knock yourself out! I've learn't a long while ago there is no budging on evolutionary theory on these forums! Sorry to dissapoint you ! Z
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Brian Member (Idle past 4979 days) Posts: 4659 From: Scotland Joined: |
Hehe, knock yourself out! I've learn't a long while ago there is no budging on evolutionary theory on these forums! Sorry to dissapoint you ! Oh you haven't disappointed me in the least, in fact you have made my day. A good days evangelising on your part, you have just confirmed an outcome that probably every atheist reading this thread would have predicted, nice one! Take care of yourself. Brian. [This message has been edited by Brian, 11-18-2003]
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Zealot Inactive Member |
Oh you haven't disappointed me in the least, in fact you have made my day.
I aim to please
A good days evangelising on your part, you have just confirmed an outcome that probably every atheist reading this thread would have predicted, nice one!
Click on my name and try see the last time I discussed any matters of evolution on these forums... should I change that just for you ?
Take care of yourself. Brian.
I always do. stay well Z
[/qs]
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apostolos Inactive Member |
I was just curious about something. It seems as though the ad hominem attacks have come to a conclusion. Does this mean we can once again pursue the originally intended discourse of this thread?
In case anyone forgot in all the clamour, it was:
quote: Russ P.s. - Excuse my seeming impudence, but it is rule #1.
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JustinC Member (Idle past 4864 days) Posts: 624 From: Pittsburgh, PA, USA Joined: |
I don't necessarily think preaching is wrong as long as they respect the persons right to decline. For instance, I find nothing wrong with Jehova's Witness's coming to my door and saying, "Have you heard Good News of Christ?" I usually say I'm not interested.
But street preachers really piss me off. Outside my school library there is always a group of preachers screaming about how all us college students are sinners and how he knows all the right answers. When faith is trotted as certitude, it begins to be more than annoying. JustinC
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