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Author Topic:   THE EVOLUTIONISTS' GUIDE TO PROPER CHRISTIAN BEHAVIOUR
Satcomm
Inactive Member


Message 36 of 120 (30116)
01-24-2003 10:12 AM
Reply to: Message 34 by nator
01-24-2003 8:36 AM


quote:
If you are talking about the passage from the Bible that goes, "Judge not, lest ye be judged.", it doesn't say anything about not being allowed to judge others.
It's OK to judge others, as long as you understand that if you do, you open yourself up to judgement, too.
Correct, Schraf.
However Jesus said more than that in Matthew 7. He also said in Matthew 7, verse 15-20, that we shall know people and false prophets by their fruits. You can detect them by the way they act, just as you can identify a tree by its fruit.
So we should not judge for condemnation (lest we be opened for condemning judgement), but we should judge for identification.
------------------
What is intelligence without wisdom?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 34 by nator, posted 01-24-2003 8:36 AM nator has not replied

Satcomm
Inactive Member


Message 62 of 120 (30747)
01-30-2003 3:19 PM
Reply to: Message 61 by Karl
01-30-2003 10:52 AM


quote:
Actually, that comes with acceptance of a God who holds one responsible for one's actions, not acceptance or rejection of any particular origins model.
Ding! Ding! That is correct.
That is the basis for personal responsibility, which is very important, especially for one who has a family.
quote:
It's just another rather ill-conceived version of the old "evolution = atheism" slander, isn't it?
Although I don't agree with much of the theory of evolution, I do agree that the concept of "evolution = atheism" is slander.
Granted, evolution does promote a more naturalist point of view, but science seems to deal exclusively with the natural universe.
------------------
What is intelligence without wisdom?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 61 by Karl, posted 01-30-2003 10:52 AM Karl has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 63 by nator, posted 01-31-2003 9:53 AM Satcomm has replied
 Message 64 by Quetzal, posted 01-31-2003 10:27 AM Satcomm has not replied

Satcomm
Inactive Member


Message 65 of 120 (30848)
01-31-2003 11:45 AM
Reply to: Message 63 by nator
01-31-2003 9:53 AM


quote:
Why do you disagree with the ToE?
We've briefly discussed this before in the Intelligent Design forum.
Also, I understand that we need to be careful about which definition of ToE we use, since there are many.
If we're talking about macro-evolution/origin of the species, I maintain a healthy skepticism on the matter. I do this to keep an open mind to alternate possibilities and conflicting evidence.
I'm no scientist, so I don't feel comfortable debating specific scientific observations and experiments out of ignorance. Instead I use things like this forum as a source of information.
------------------
What is intelligence without wisdom?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 63 by nator, posted 01-31-2003 9:53 AM nator has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 66 by Percy, posted 01-31-2003 12:10 PM Satcomm has not replied

Satcomm
Inactive Member


Message 78 of 120 (31161)
02-03-2003 4:23 PM
Reply to: Message 77 by Percy
02-03-2003 12:09 PM


quote:
Given the large number of phenomena once attributed to God that now have natural scientific explanations, what gives you any confidence that those things you attribute to God today won't be explained by science tomorrow?
I like this question a lot. I really do.
From a Christian perspective, I don't doubt that science may one day explain certain phenomena once attributed to God. However, I don't think that scientific explanations diminish the faith at all, but they actually reinforce it. From my point of view, God created the universe around us, and science merely provides observational explanations for such things. Who is to say that God didn't intend for us to discover such things from the beginning?
Where we run into gray area is when science tries to explain something that hasn't been directly observed. And that is where the debate comes in.
And we're going off topic. Sorry.
------------------
What is intelligence without wisdom?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 77 by Percy, posted 02-03-2003 12:09 PM Percy has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 81 by Percy, posted 02-04-2003 9:01 AM Satcomm has replied
 Message 86 by Mytym, posted 02-04-2003 10:50 AM Satcomm has replied

Satcomm
Inactive Member


Message 84 of 120 (31252)
02-04-2003 10:25 AM
Reply to: Message 81 by Percy
02-04-2003 9:01 AM


quote:
I think you'll find that this definition places you on a slippery slope because of the ambiguous definnition of "directly".
Exactly my point: ambiguous. Open to interpretation and debate.
Oh don't get me wrong, I agree with what you're saying. And I find your statements fascinating. Almost like asking "How do we know what is real and what is not?"
------------------
What is intelligence without wisdom?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 81 by Percy, posted 02-04-2003 9:01 AM Percy has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 85 by John, posted 02-04-2003 10:32 AM Satcomm has replied

Satcomm
Inactive Member


Message 87 of 120 (31264)
02-04-2003 10:58 AM
Reply to: Message 86 by Mytym
02-04-2003 10:50 AM


quote:
In my opinion the grey area is when we take the Bible as being the word of God. Science simply serves as a tool to explain why events occur in the way that they do. It does not aim at proving the non-existence of God.
Agreed. That is where faith comes in. Hence the name of the forum that we're posting in. Faith and science are two different things.
quote:
Just because things didn't happen the way it is mentioned in the Bible has no bearing on God's existence...
I find this statement ambiguous. How do you know the validity of this?
quote:
, as the Bible is just a book written by man.
Actually the Bible is a library of books written by several different people throughout history. It is my opinion that all of them are saying the same thing.
------------------
What is intelligence without wisdom?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 86 by Mytym, posted 02-04-2003 10:50 AM Mytym has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 88 by Mytym, posted 02-04-2003 11:09 AM Satcomm has replied

Satcomm
Inactive Member


Message 89 of 120 (31273)
02-04-2003 11:10 AM
Reply to: Message 85 by John
02-04-2003 10:32 AM


quote:
So where do you draw the line?
When something seems to hinder practicality, logic, and wisdom. That's usually the point where I'll investigate and research.
You guys are a good source of information, btw.
------------------
What is intelligence without wisdom?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 85 by John, posted 02-04-2003 10:32 AM John has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 93 by John, posted 02-04-2003 11:26 AM Satcomm has replied

Satcomm
Inactive Member


Message 90 of 120 (31275)
02-04-2003 11:15 AM
Reply to: Message 88 by Mytym
02-04-2003 11:09 AM


quote:
As you say, that is where faith comes in.
So you're going by your own faith alone? How very unscientific of you.
quote:
I didn't say it was written by a man, I said it was written by "Man", as in humans.
Ok, I'll give you this for not being specific enough. But it was necessary to correct that statement, as it isn't simply "one book" like the Koran, for example. I agree that it was written by humans. The debate comes in as to whether it is inspired by God or not. I think it is.
------------------
What is intelligence without wisdom?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 88 by Mytym, posted 02-04-2003 11:09 AM Mytym has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 92 by Mytym, posted 02-04-2003 11:22 AM Satcomm has not replied

Satcomm
Inactive Member


Message 94 of 120 (31287)
02-04-2003 11:49 AM
Reply to: Message 93 by John
02-04-2003 11:26 AM


quote:
But the question was, perhaps this wasn't clear, where is the line between direct and indirect observation? Your answer doesn't seem to address this, except very vaguely. As a rule of thumb, I understand your response. I've 'known' that something was wrong with an statement or idea for days or weeks before realizing what that something is.
Good form, John. I'm not sure how to answer this, but I will attempt to do so.
It is my opinion that the "line" drawn between direct and indirect observation is a moveable one. Therefore, it is open to debate and interpretation. Percy brought up a lot of good points, which only seemed to support what I was saying. Observations can easily turn into gray area. One person can observe something differently than another. Senses can deceive.
quote:
However, what I am getting at is this: Creationists often discount evolution as not being directly observable yet accept science which is equally not-directly observable as far as I can tell. I want to know where that line is drawn.
I often don't agree with this idea of Creationism being science. I find that when one mixes faith with science, criticism is the result. And that criticism is often warranted. Therefore, I take science for what it really is: observation and interpretation of the natural universe. When I look at it this way, I have no problem accepted much of science and my faith in God. I am open to interpreting new ideas, but my faith will always remain the same due to conviction. My faith tells me that the theory of evolution is wrong, but I can't prove whether or not it is true, nor am I going to devote time to discredit it, scientifically. I am comfortable with my faith.
------------------
What is intelligence without wisdom?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 93 by John, posted 02-04-2003 11:26 AM John has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 95 by Percy, posted 02-04-2003 1:45 PM Satcomm has not replied
 Message 100 by John, posted 02-06-2003 9:42 AM Satcomm has not replied

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