I want to be convinced - an experiment

Ah, but since that first guy have come quite a group of guys and gals, digging up fossils in fun places like Greenland, that bring with them out of the rocks the actual physical evidence - the very bones - that show just how fish took up walking. Your choosing to be ignorant of Ichthyostega and Panderichthys and their cousins won't make them go away....

So, you're trying to tell me that the bones they found actually were able explain to the scientists how they came to walk. Interesting, you know I've seen pictures that if you stand just right and stare long enough at the focal spot an image will appear that before was not there. I guess if you try hard enough to explain something bad enough logic goes away and is replaced with negligent hypothesis. The truth is there is NO proof, and there never will be.

Actually, the thing is, that picture was there all along.It's just a matter of having the intelligence, persistence, and wherewithall to see it. Kind of like science, in that way.

Crashfrog, you drain me with you stupid childlike comments. I know the concept of the painting. My point, if I really have to explain and I know I don't, is you can let yourself see anything you choose if you look hard enough...i.e. the people trying to explain evolution when there is no evolution to explain, yet they talk themselves into believing it. Kind of like you saying you were a believer once.

Excuse me if I don't write out everything. You may have to do some checking on your own. It will make us even, you've made me do my homework now you do yours.
1. Isaiah 14:23 said Babylon, which had been a world power on two occasions, would be turned into a swampland and destroyed by a man named Cyrus. Archeologists in 1800's couldn't excavate areas of the city due to the water level of which it now was under.
2. Nahum 3:15 said Ninevah would be devoured by fire. Again archeologists in the 1800
's uncovered Ninevah which had a layer of ash over it. Accorcing to the encyclopedia Britanica: Ninevah suffered defeat from which it never recovered. extensive traces of ash, representing the sack of the city by Babylonians, Sathians, and Meades in 612 B.C. have been found in many parts of the Acropolis.
3. Isaiah spoke of Cyrus (the man who conquered Babylon) 150 years before he was born and 180 years before he conquered Babylon.
4. Jeremiah predicted about 2,600 years ago, the sequence of the rebuilding of Jerusalem and it's 9 suburbs. The location in which they would be built and their construction sequence. He reffered to this rebuilding as the "rebirth" or the time when Jerusalem would be rebuilt after Rome conquered and destroyed it in 70A.D. This was fulfilled exactly as he said in 1948.
5. Mathew 24:1-2 recorded around 30 A.D. and fulfilled in 70A.D. Jesus said the temple would be destroyed and it was 40 years later. He said not one stone would be left standing on top of another. And so it was, the Romans trying to get to the gold that melted and ran into the cracks so they pried the walls apart to get every last bit.I'm sure you'll try to explain away all this, I'm expecting it. I would expect nothing less from a "fellow christian". I still don't see how you can say you are a christian and in the mean time work so hard to explain away the bible. What are you a morman? What denomination are you? Let me guess....non-denominational?

Go to your local library, J, and check out Gaining Ground by Jennifer Clack. Read it. Look at the pictures. Then come back and explain to me how all those neat not-quite-a-fish/but-not-amphibians-either came to be, and where they went away to.

yeah, saw it. Looks like some big ole salemanders to me. Listen you believe what you want. God created that little amphibian just like He did everything else. Just because you "scientist" can't explain why it looks so much like a fish-lizard, doesn't mean it is a transitional phase caught in limbo. Face it, it's just another creature that lived at one time. Nothing more. No missing links. It doesn't work that way. And until you can put a few animals of the same "kind" in a closed area and watch them for hundreds of years to see if it evolves into a different "kind", then you will never have proof. You will just be seen a fools, trying to tell God he didn't do what he said he did....later. Going to work again back in 1hr.

You talk to Jesus with that mouth? So, are you fucking with us, or just really bad at choosing analogies?I know what your point was. But you chose to try to illustrate it with an analogy that demonstrates the exact opposite of what you meant. When you look at those pictures - autostereograms, they're called - you don't see whatever you want. You see what was there but hidden. Show an autostereogram to 50 people. I guarantee that, among everybody who has the skill of viewing them, they'll agree on what they saw.Science is the same way. Show the evidence to people with the expertise to look at it and they'll come to similar conclusions. The only people who "see what they want to see" are the people who let ideology dictate their conclusions - creationists.

A different what?You used a word - kind - that I've never heard in the context of biology, so I didn't understand. Can you tell me what that word means, and how I would go about determining if two animals were in a different kind or not?

You might not have said it directly. It was pretty clear you were assuming it, though, and you went on to say it pretty directly in the rest of your post here. You start there by saying, "This is all based on the assumption that those reading this believe in God and are Christian," but that's not true. You are basing it on the assumption that those reading this believe in God and are the kind of Christians who believe that the Bible is God. Otherwise how could you go from:

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4. That means that the Bible is wrong

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to

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5. That means that God is wrong

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If the Bible is not God, then it's possible for the Bible to be wrong and yet God still to be right.However, your chain of logic was messed up even before you got there. You said:

quote:

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2. God said he created the earth and everything in it and around it

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3. You say things turn from shrimp to shark to skunk...etc.

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4. That means that the bible is wrong.

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In what way do things turning from shrimp to shark to skunk contradict God creating the earth and everything in it and around it??? Don't you believe that things turned from wolf to St. Bernard and Chihuahua? If the wolf to Chihuahua lineage doesn't make the Bible wrong, then why does a shrimp to skunk transition make the Bible wrong? Maybe I'm just outthinking you.Maybe only you are saying that the Bible is accurate on scientific and historic matters, and God never said any such thing. Maybe--in fact certainly--only you are saying that the Bible is the Word of God and even the Bible disagrees with you on that.Maybe God wants you to think, not just swallow poison wholeheartedly. Who told you all this stuff about if the Bible is wrong God is wrong, anyway? Do you have good, Scriptural reasons to trust the people who told you that?

MY POINT IS, YOU ARE CONTRADICTING YOURSELF BY BELIEVEING IN EVOLUTION. BY DOING SO YOU'RE SAYING THAT THE BIBLE IS WRONG. AND WHY DON'T YOU START ANSWERING MY QUESTIONS PLEASE? SHOW ME WHERE THE BIBLE SAYS IT'S NOT THE WORD OF GOD LIKE YOU SAID IN YOUR LAST POST. AND DON'T TELL ME WHAT I MEAN. I MAKE NO ASSUMPTIONS. I GO ON WHAT YOU SAY AND WHAT THE TRUTH IS. AND THE BIBLE CANNOT BE WRONG THE WAY CHRISTIANS BELIEVE BECAUSE IT IS DIRECT FROM GOD THAT WE GET WHAT IS IN THE BIBLE. IF YOU DON'T BELIEVE THAT THEN OUR CONVERSATION IS OVER. AND YES THE WOLF LINEAGE IS WRONG. YOU CAN GET DIFFERENT DOGS, SURE. BUT YOU DON'T GET A DIFFERENT SPECIES.

Gosh, Truthlover, now you know he must be right - he's gone to all caps!

by this logic the only people that can agree with evolution would be scientists. When I said "if you look hard enough you can see whatever you want to see" I was referring to the evolutionists, my friend, NOT the viewers of art. And YOU curse at me and ask me if I talk to Yeshua with MY mouth when I say to you "you drain me with your stupid childlike comments" You hypocrite! God help you because I'm just about at the end of my line. I was in here to try to help others find Christ. I came into this forum by mistake and saw a girl asking for help and guidance so I gave her the only advice I could. And now you, someone who has said they once believed. Whoelse could possibly be in need of compassion than you. But you won't allow anyone to help you. If you had God at one point then you realize what you are missing, the emptyspace inside that you need to fill. But I'm getting tired of the hatred you ALL keep spewing out. It is sad and pathetic. All I have done over the last few days is spend hours on this stupid computer talking to you, trying to get through and then you have the gaul to ask me if I have faith, if I'm a believer. I'VE seen the holy spirit my friend the day I commited to Christ. I saw a light shining through a wall up towards the ceiling at our church there was no hole and if there was the only thing behind it was rooms and brick walls. It has kept me solid in my belief EVEN when I had my questions and doubts. But I never forgot what I saw. So you all can go on not believing but it will NOT change the truth. If you wait too long it will be over and you will be lost. It may seem trivial to you now becuase you can't see or hear GOD. But He is there and He is listening. Just because you didn't get a prayer answered doesn't mean He didn't hear you. You may have just prayed for the wrong thing, or maybe God had different plans for you. Who knows? This is all for me in this forum. No matter our differences, you crashfrog and truthlover are in my prayers from this point on. Thank you for helping me to research more in the last few days than I have in quite sometime. I'm a stronger christian believer, and more knowledgable now than I was before this so I got some good from it. God bless you all. My best. -Jay

Josiah, I don't believe that TL did anything to warrant the 'net equivalent of yelling at him. Consider this a friendly suggestion to re-read the Forum GuidelinesClaims are easy to make, but the substance of this forum is the debate on these claims. If you don't want to converse with those that do not believe exactly as you do, then why are you on a debate forum full of non-Christian evolutionists?

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AdminAsgara
Queen of the Universe

actually queen I wasn't yelling I know the whole caps are yelling. But cut me some slack. I've been working and on call from 8a to 2a I am at the work computer and didn't change it over. sorry just a little tired. bye.