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Author Topic:   What are the Degrees of Fundamentalism?
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1445 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 196 of 229 (333336)
07-19-2006 1:58 PM
Reply to: Message 192 by sidelined
07-19-2006 9:34 AM


Re: scripture ref
Yet the men who write the bible, because you agree with their point of view, are exempt from the fallibility of intellect you claim all men have.Refering back to a point you made here,
No, even the great prophets were fallible, but God's word was inspired and preserved by God HImself, not the men who wrote it. They wrote under God's inspiration and He is the one who made sure they wrote the truth. They wrote only when "moved by the Holy Spirit."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 192 by sidelined, posted 07-19-2006 9:34 AM sidelined has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 197 by ramoss, posted 07-19-2006 2:53 PM Faith has replied
 Message 206 by sidelined, posted 07-20-2006 9:44 AM Faith has not replied

  
ramoss
Member (Idle past 612 days)
Posts: 3228
Joined: 08-11-2004


Message 197 of 229 (333367)
07-19-2006 2:53 PM
Reply to: Message 196 by Faith
07-19-2006 1:58 PM


Re: scripture ref
That is their claim. They only thought they were guided by the holy spirit.
They were wrong.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 196 by Faith, posted 07-19-2006 1:58 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 198 by Faith, posted 07-19-2006 2:55 PM ramoss has replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1445 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 198 of 229 (333368)
07-19-2006 2:55 PM
Reply to: Message 197 by ramoss
07-19-2006 2:53 PM


Re: scripture ref
That's irrelevant and off topic. If God inspired them then their fallibility is not an issue.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 197 by ramoss, posted 07-19-2006 2:53 PM ramoss has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 199 by ramoss, posted 07-19-2006 3:45 PM Faith has replied

  
ramoss
Member (Idle past 612 days)
Posts: 3228
Joined: 08-11-2004


Message 199 of 229 (333409)
07-19-2006 3:45 PM
Reply to: Message 198 by Faith
07-19-2006 2:55 PM


Re: scripture ref
But, you see, God did not inspire them.
That is the issue.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 198 by Faith, posted 07-19-2006 2:55 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 200 by Faith, posted 07-19-2006 3:49 PM ramoss has replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1445 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 200 of 229 (333411)
07-19-2006 3:49 PM
Reply to: Message 199 by ramoss
07-19-2006 3:45 PM


Re: scripture ref
I understand that you consider your personal dogma to trump the dogma of the Church of Jesus Christ, but at the very least you have to learn how to reckon with the word "IF" and basic logic in a discussion like this.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 199 by ramoss, posted 07-19-2006 3:45 PM ramoss has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 201 by ramoss, posted 07-19-2006 3:57 PM Faith has not replied

  
ramoss
Member (Idle past 612 days)
Posts: 3228
Joined: 08-11-2004


Message 201 of 229 (333417)
07-19-2006 3:57 PM
Reply to: Message 200 by Faith
07-19-2006 3:49 PM


Re: scripture ref
Ah.. you begin to see yourself in the mirror. Excellent.
Now, you have seen yourself in the mirror. What have your learned?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 200 by Faith, posted 07-19-2006 3:49 PM Faith has not replied

Replies to this message:
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riVeRraT
Member (Idle past 416 days)
Posts: 5788
From: NY USA
Joined: 05-09-2004


Message 202 of 229 (333645)
07-20-2006 8:16 AM
Reply to: Message 194 by jar
07-19-2006 10:03 AM


Re: God's judgment
The important part is not some vague after the fact claim
He predicted it before it happened, and I personally read it before it happened. I don't remember all the details, but it was close enough. Is it post-hoc reasoning? I don't think so. Was it a coincidence? I don't think so either.
but rather the hard cold scientific models that showed Katrina was not just likely but damn near certain.
I believe in that too.
You live by your prophets, I'll take the National Weather Service anyday.
I will heed warnings from both. Tell me, why does it have to be either or?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 194 by jar, posted 07-19-2006 10:03 AM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 207 by ramoss, posted 07-20-2006 10:07 AM riVeRraT has replied
 Message 208 by sidelined, posted 07-20-2006 10:27 AM riVeRraT has not replied
 Message 209 by jar, posted 07-20-2006 10:54 AM riVeRraT has replied

  
riVeRraT
Member (Idle past 416 days)
Posts: 5788
From: NY USA
Joined: 05-09-2004


Message 203 of 229 (333650)
07-20-2006 8:30 AM
Reply to: Message 195 by Faith
07-19-2006 1:53 PM


Re: God's judgment
The verse is psecifically about the fall of Jeruslem. So I don't see the relativity in using to describe Katrina.
I have seen you speak many times of the Jesus being the fulfillment of the law, and it seems you are picking and choosing what was fulfilled or not.
1 Corinthians 14:22
22 Tongues, then, are a sign, not for believers but for unbelievers; prophecy, however, is for believers, not for unbelievers.
Matthew 7:12
12 So in everything, do to others what you would have them do to you, for this sums up the Law and the Prophets.
Edited by riVeRraT, : spelling

This message is a reply to:
 Message 195 by Faith, posted 07-19-2006 1:53 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 204 by Faith, posted 07-20-2006 8:40 AM riVeRraT has replied
 Message 205 by Faith, posted 07-20-2006 9:23 AM riVeRraT has replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1445 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 204 of 229 (333654)
07-20-2006 8:40 AM
Reply to: Message 203 by riVeRraT
07-20-2006 8:30 AM


Re: God's judgment
I was specifically answering your false generalization that to be prophecy it must refer to the future. That verse proves you wrong. It was spoken by a prophet and it was prophetic and it was about how people would know something AFTER it happened. So drop your false accusatory overgeneralization.
I don't follow the rest of your post, except that it sounds similarly accusatory and judgmental. I don't just willynilly decide what Jesus fulfilled on my own impression, I base it on how many Christian commentators and preachers interpret it all, since I've read and heard a lot on it, and "there is safety in many counsellors." You on the other hand appear to trust in your own personal impressions and impose them on me as if they were gospel truth.
God does not lead us all by the same way or for the same purpose. What he tells one may be very limited in scope, and should not be used to judge what he tells others.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 203 by riVeRraT, posted 07-20-2006 8:30 AM riVeRraT has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 210 by riVeRraT, posted 07-21-2006 9:05 AM Faith has not replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1445 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 205 of 229 (333667)
07-20-2006 9:23 AM
Reply to: Message 203 by riVeRraT
07-20-2006 8:30 AM


Re: God's judgment
1 Corinthians 14:22
22 Tongues, then, are a sign, not for believers but for unbelievers; prophecy, however, is for believers, not for unbelievers.
That is prophetic speaking in the church, or speaking the mind of God, before the canon was completed, and it was not necessarily foretelling.
Are you objecting to my explaining God's role in events because you disagree that God has that role in them or because even though it's true I shouldn't be saying it? You've said both, you know. Since you reject the very idea that God directs all events, I see no credibility in your judgment of what I'm doing whatever.
Matthew 7:12
12 So in everything, do to others what you would have them do to you, for this sums up the Law and the Prophets.
Speak that one to yourself, since your attitude toward me leaves quite a bit to be desired.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 203 by riVeRraT, posted 07-20-2006 8:30 AM riVeRraT has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 211 by riVeRraT, posted 07-21-2006 9:12 AM Faith has replied

  
sidelined
Member (Idle past 5908 days)
Posts: 3435
From: Edmonton Alberta Canada
Joined: 08-30-2003


Message 206 of 229 (333675)
07-20-2006 9:44 AM
Reply to: Message 196 by Faith
07-19-2006 1:58 PM


Re: scripture ref
Faith
They wrote under God's inspiration and He is the one who made sure they wrote the truth. They wrote only when "moved by the Holy Spirit."
So how do you know this to be the case? How do you determine what they were writing about actually occured and was inspired by God?
I reiterate, you believe this to be the case ,and that is your right. However, this does not make the writings to be true nor does it mean that other people are incorrect in their rejection or ignorance of the bible.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 196 by Faith, posted 07-19-2006 1:58 PM Faith has not replied

  
ramoss
Member (Idle past 612 days)
Posts: 3228
Joined: 08-11-2004


Message 207 of 229 (333687)
07-20-2006 10:07 AM
Reply to: Message 202 by riVeRraT
07-20-2006 8:16 AM


Re: God's judgment
People had been predicting that a collapse of the levis in New Orleans might happen for years.
The thing is, how many predictions did this Jackson make? How many did he get right? I mean, it wasn't a hard thing to figure out that a hurricane hitting New Orleans and the levi's collapsing was a strong possiblity.
If you make enough predictions, one or another will come true. What is this guys' record?? Bet he isn't broadcasting what his failures are.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 202 by riVeRraT, posted 07-20-2006 8:16 AM riVeRraT has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 212 by riVeRraT, posted 07-21-2006 9:18 AM ramoss has not replied

  
sidelined
Member (Idle past 5908 days)
Posts: 3435
From: Edmonton Alberta Canada
Joined: 08-30-2003


Message 208 of 229 (333700)
07-20-2006 10:27 AM
Reply to: Message 202 by riVeRraT
07-20-2006 8:16 AM


Re: God's judgment
riVeRrat
He predicted it before it happened, and I personally read it before it happened.
Excellent! What was the name of the periodical you read it in and the date of the publication?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 202 by riVeRraT, posted 07-20-2006 8:16 AM riVeRraT has not replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 209 of 229 (333710)
07-20-2006 10:54 AM
Reply to: Message 202 by riVeRraT
07-20-2006 8:16 AM


Re: God's judgment
He predicted it before it happened, and I personally read it before it happened. I don't remember all the details, but it was close enough. Is it post-hoc reasoning? I don't think so. Was it a coincidence? I don't think so either.
So did many studies that streatched over several decades. Only someone who had tightly shut their eyes and ears did not know what would happen.
will heed warnings from both. Tell me, why does it have to be either or?
Because one is backed by evidence while the theist prophet is but a conman.

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 202 by riVeRraT, posted 07-20-2006 8:16 AM riVeRraT has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 213 by riVeRraT, posted 07-21-2006 9:44 AM jar has not replied

  
riVeRraT
Member (Idle past 416 days)
Posts: 5788
From: NY USA
Joined: 05-09-2004


Message 210 of 229 (333925)
07-21-2006 9:05 AM
Reply to: Message 204 by Faith
07-20-2006 8:40 AM


Re: God's judgment
That verse proves you wrong.
My point was that,
I wanted to know from you how it proves me wrong, It is from the OT, and we don't always follow the ways of the OT.
If you really take some time and read the verses I provided, from the NT, it is plainly clear how we should treat prophecies.
I don't follow the rest of your post, except that it sounds similarly accusatory and judgmental.
I am sorry you feel that way, it wasn't meant that way.
I don't just willynilly decide what Jesus fulfilled on my own impression, I base it on how many Christian commentators and preachers interpret it all,
I don't follow completely how you arrived at this conclusion, when it was bible verses that I provided you with to make my point. I am not just making this stuff up as I go, I have been studying the bible for 14 years.
Christian commentators and preachers are fine, but they are just men, who derived what what they think from whatever. If a Christian commentator told you to jump off the broklyn bridge, would you? Plus you haven't provided any commentator literature that would show that scolding people with prophecies after the fact is a Christian thing to do.
Wouldn't you rather put your faith in the combined knowledge of bible scriptures, commentators, real life, and wisdom from the Holy Spirit?
You on the other hand appear to trust in your own personal impressions and impose them on me as if they were gospel truth.
It was you who imposed your interpretation of it all about what Katrina is, as gospel truth. Now your trying to defend it when someone doesn't agree with what your saying, and providing you with rock solid documentation from the bible on why.
God does not lead us all by the same way or for the same purpose. What he tells one may be very limited in scope, and should not be used to judge what he tells others.
That is pretty close to my point and ironical that you would say that. Maybe you should apply that statement to your own judgemental ideas about what Katrina was supposed to represent.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 204 by Faith, posted 07-20-2006 8:40 AM Faith has not replied

  
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