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Author Topic:   That certain kind of Christian
jar
Member (Idle past 393 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 16 of 62 (445459)
01-02-2008 2:49 PM
Reply to: Message 15 by Taz
01-02-2008 2:34 PM


Yup, that certain kind of christian... but I just find it odd that I haven't heard of or seen any christian rally FOR people's rights.
Perhaps you never heard of Martin Luther King or Katharine Jefferts Schori.

Immigration has been a problem Since 1607!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 15 by Taz, posted 01-02-2008 2:34 PM Taz has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 18 by Taz, posted 01-02-2008 3:02 PM jar has replied

  
macaroniandcheese 
Suspended Member (Idle past 3927 days)
Posts: 4258
Joined: 05-24-2004


Message 17 of 62 (445460)
01-02-2008 2:54 PM
Reply to: Message 15 by Taz
01-02-2008 2:34 PM


"ruin our lives and the economy and different things." nice to know that he's educated. what exactly does gay marriage have to do with the economy?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 15 by Taz, posted 01-02-2008 2:34 PM Taz has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 19 by Taz, posted 01-02-2008 3:03 PM macaroniandcheese has not replied
 Message 45 by Rrhain, posted 01-02-2008 10:33 PM macaroniandcheese has not replied

  
Taz
Member (Idle past 3291 days)
Posts: 5069
From: Zerus
Joined: 07-18-2006


Message 18 of 62 (445463)
01-02-2008 3:02 PM
Reply to: Message 16 by jar
01-02-2008 2:49 PM


I don't know, jar. It seems to me that there are a lot of people that would fight for the rights of a specific group of people but then deny outright that another group of people deserved any right at all. You should read up on Ghandi's view of Africans.
The most important thing we have to realize about human rights is that EVERYBODY have rights and not just a select group. Human rights are not up for debate. Human rights are not up for compromise. The fact that the African American community has repeatedly denied that same-sex marriage issue is a civil right issue should tell you something about their attitude.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 16 by jar, posted 01-02-2008 2:49 PM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 20 by jar, posted 01-02-2008 3:06 PM Taz has replied
 Message 22 by Phat, posted 01-02-2008 3:31 PM Taz has replied

  
Taz
Member (Idle past 3291 days)
Posts: 5069
From: Zerus
Joined: 07-18-2006


Message 19 of 62 (445464)
01-02-2008 3:03 PM
Reply to: Message 17 by macaroniandcheese
01-02-2008 2:54 PM


bren writes:
what exactly does gay marriage have to do with the economy?
The fire and brimstone raining down from the sky would ruin the crops.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 17 by macaroniandcheese, posted 01-02-2008 2:54 PM macaroniandcheese has not replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 393 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 20 of 62 (445466)
01-02-2008 3:06 PM
Reply to: Message 18 by Taz
01-02-2008 3:02 PM


Human rights are not up for debate.
What rights humans have is always up for debate.
The issue once again though Taz is that you continue to assert that Christianity is some monolithic entity.
You claimed Christians do not speak out for others human rights. Sorry but many of us do.

Immigration has been a problem Since 1607!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 18 by Taz, posted 01-02-2008 3:02 PM Taz has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 21 by Taz, posted 01-02-2008 3:21 PM jar has replied

  
Taz
Member (Idle past 3291 days)
Posts: 5069
From: Zerus
Joined: 07-18-2006


Message 21 of 62 (445472)
01-02-2008 3:21 PM
Reply to: Message 20 by jar
01-02-2008 3:06 PM


jar writes:
What rights humans have is always up for debate.
Unfortunately, this is true. We had to debate whether the blacks were really people or not. We had to debate whether the females were capable of understanding politics. And unfortunately, we're still debating whether the gheys are competent enough to sign a damn marriage lisence.
The issue once again though Taz is that you continue to assert that Christianity is some monolithic entity.
You claimed Christians do not speak out for others human rights. Sorry but many of us do.
No, I'm not, jar. I'm saying that the christians who speak the language of hate are loud and numerous and the christians who claim to love don't seem to want to go out of their way to counter the other group. When was the last time you heard about a christian rally for gay rights? Instead, almost every month we hear about christians protesting against gays and the people who support them.
Jar, you're a noble man, but there aren't enough of you around for you to claim that christianity is about love and tolerance. When you look at a group of people, your impression of that group depends on what you see as most are doing. And frankly, the fact that more and more states have referandums to ban gay marriage get voted for by record numbers should tell you something about the overall general christian attitude.
And might I remind you that everytime nemesis_juggernaut compares gay people to murders, rapists, and people who eat feces, it's only atheists that would call him on it?
Yes, many of you do speak out for human rights. But a great great many more seem to be against human rights.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 20 by jar, posted 01-02-2008 3:06 PM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 23 by jar, posted 01-02-2008 3:32 PM Taz has replied
 Message 28 by macaroniandcheese, posted 01-02-2008 3:58 PM Taz has replied
 Message 47 by Rrhain, posted 01-02-2008 10:37 PM Taz has not replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 22 of 62 (445474)
01-02-2008 3:31 PM
Reply to: Message 18 by Taz
01-02-2008 3:02 PM


Right is right
Taz writes:
The most important thing we have to realize about human rights is that EVERYBODY have rights and not just a select group.
And this also means that some of us have the right not to be exposed to your idea of right.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 18 by Taz, posted 01-02-2008 3:02 PM Taz has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 25 by Taz, posted 01-02-2008 3:50 PM Phat has not replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 393 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 23 of 62 (445475)
01-02-2008 3:32 PM
Reply to: Message 21 by Taz
01-02-2008 3:21 PM


When was the last time you heard about a christian rally for gay rights?
I hear about it almost daily Taz. In fact the Episcopal Church is going through a schism right now and the Presiding Bishop has taken the position that those churches that do not want to affirm human rights can just plain leave. We have an openly gay Bishop and today the argument is about whether or not we as Episcopalians need to go even beyond the concept of simply accepting civil unions but to granting full marriage rights consecrated by a church blessing.
Sorry Taz but there are Many of us that are not simply sitting on the sidelines.

Immigration has been a problem Since 1607!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 21 by Taz, posted 01-02-2008 3:21 PM Taz has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 24 by Taz, posted 01-02-2008 3:48 PM jar has replied

  
Taz
Member (Idle past 3291 days)
Posts: 5069
From: Zerus
Joined: 07-18-2006


Message 24 of 62 (445478)
01-02-2008 3:48 PM
Reply to: Message 23 by jar
01-02-2008 3:32 PM


Yeah, last I heard about that the church is splitting up. I'd hardly call that a good demonstration of christian tolerance.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 23 by jar, posted 01-02-2008 3:32 PM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 26 by Phat, posted 01-02-2008 3:51 PM Taz has not replied
 Message 27 by jar, posted 01-02-2008 3:55 PM Taz has replied

  
Taz
Member (Idle past 3291 days)
Posts: 5069
From: Zerus
Joined: 07-18-2006


Message 25 of 62 (445479)
01-02-2008 3:50 PM
Reply to: Message 22 by Phat
01-02-2008 3:31 PM


Re: Right is right
Phat, are you disputing that black people being treated fairly like the rest of us is a human right or that women being allowed to vote and participate in politics is a human right?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 22 by Phat, posted 01-02-2008 3:31 PM Phat has not replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 26 of 62 (445480)
01-02-2008 3:51 PM
Reply to: Message 24 by Taz
01-02-2008 3:48 PM


Tolerance
The whole idea of tolerance in a Christian context (or any context, actually) is debateable.
Should Jesus have been tolerant of Pharisees?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 24 by Taz, posted 01-02-2008 3:48 PM Taz has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 48 by Rrhain, posted 01-02-2008 10:39 PM Phat has not replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 393 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 27 of 62 (445481)
01-02-2008 3:55 PM
Reply to: Message 24 by Taz
01-02-2008 3:48 PM


Really. You don't think the fact that a Church is willing to stand up for civil rights even at the risk of many folk leaving or perhaps even being excluded from the Anglican Communion is not a demonstration of supporting human rights.
Come on Taz.
Open Letter to Bishop O'Neil

Immigration has been a problem Since 1607!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 24 by Taz, posted 01-02-2008 3:48 PM Taz has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 29 by Taz, posted 01-02-2008 4:36 PM jar has replied

  
macaroniandcheese 
Suspended Member (Idle past 3927 days)
Posts: 4258
Joined: 05-24-2004


Message 28 of 62 (445483)
01-02-2008 3:58 PM
Reply to: Message 21 by Taz
01-02-2008 3:21 PM


it's only atheists that would call him on it?
no, i call him on it often enough.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 21 by Taz, posted 01-02-2008 3:21 PM Taz has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 30 by Taz, posted 01-02-2008 4:38 PM macaroniandcheese has replied

  
Taz
Member (Idle past 3291 days)
Posts: 5069
From: Zerus
Joined: 07-18-2006


Message 29 of 62 (445490)
01-02-2008 4:36 PM
Reply to: Message 27 by jar
01-02-2008 3:55 PM


jar writes:
You don't think the fact that a Church is willing to stand up for civil rights even at the risk of many folk leaving or perhaps even being excluded from the Anglican Communion is not a demonstration of supporting human rights.
Jar, the church IS the people in it. You sound like the church is just the bishop and the people are just spectators.
Yes, it's a demonstration of supporting human rights, but I'm still waiting to see just how much of the whole church will truly support human rights and how much of it will act like the typical christian.
Jar, I'm sure there were noble efforts among some 18th century Americans to abolish slavery. It doesn't mean that America as a whole wasn't a slave owning nation. I'm sure you can name a few nazis who helped saved people in Central Europe, but it doesn't mean the nazis weren't evil bastards.
Jar, show me tangible results. Pointing out a hand full of christians who are willing to cast aside bigotry will only prove just that, a hand full of christians who are willing to cast aside bigotry. You still have a whole nation's worth of voters (the bulk of christianity in this nation) to look to to see what I mean.
Edited by Taz, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 27 by jar, posted 01-02-2008 3:55 PM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 31 by jar, posted 01-02-2008 4:39 PM Taz has replied

  
Taz
Member (Idle past 3291 days)
Posts: 5069
From: Zerus
Joined: 07-18-2006


Message 30 of 62 (445491)
01-02-2008 4:38 PM
Reply to: Message 28 by macaroniandcheese
01-02-2008 3:58 PM


Funny, you must have done it often enough for me not to notice, and I'm the person who engages him most often on this issue.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 28 by macaroniandcheese, posted 01-02-2008 3:58 PM macaroniandcheese has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 33 by macaroniandcheese, posted 01-02-2008 4:47 PM Taz has replied

  
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