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Author Topic:   Examples of non-Christian Moral systems.
Hangdawg13
Member (Idle past 751 days)
Posts: 1189
From: Texas
Joined: 05-30-2004


Message 271 of 296 (123837)
07-11-2004 11:11 PM
Reply to: Message 270 by sidelined
07-11-2004 9:41 PM


Thank you for your reply.
Jar, I think this is a good discussion as it is comparing Sidelined's humanist(?) morals with Christian morals to discover parallels or diversions.
Preoccupation with self is again something that is necessary in reaching a full life.
I disagree. Preoccupation with Christ is what is necessary in reaching a full life. To do this you cannot be preoccupied with yourself. But you cannot understand this, because you have not experienced it. You may think you are living a full life, but you are only half alive. How do I know? I've talked to people like you who eventually converted and discovered what it truly meant to be occupied with Christ and I have experienced it myself.
There are unavoidable occasions where life neccesitates selfishness because there is only so much time you can devote to any one thing without it being a detriment to other areas of your life.
True, we must do things for ourselves. But the issue is not what we do, but why we do it. What is our motivation? You (the humanist) are motivated by life's pleasures or by helping others who need you or for the advancement of society. The Christian is motivated in all things by love for God.
Getting back to lust: another way to look at it is that lust is the belief that obtaining a certain thing will make you happier. Lust/arrogance is also the source of all frustration. A humble person occupied with God is never frustrated. As Paul says, "I have learned the secret of being content in any and every situation."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 270 by sidelined, posted 07-11-2004 9:41 PM sidelined has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 272 by jar, posted 07-11-2004 11:29 PM Hangdawg13 has not replied
 Message 273 by Rand Al'Thor, posted 07-12-2004 5:06 AM Hangdawg13 has replied
 Message 274 by sidelined, posted 07-12-2004 9:54 AM Hangdawg13 has not replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 272 of 296 (123842)
07-11-2004 11:29 PM
Reply to: Message 271 by Hangdawg13
07-11-2004 11:11 PM


Well let's look for a second at what Confucius says about Lust.
Confucius said, "There are three things which the superior man guards against. In youth, when the physical powers are not yet settled, he guards against lust. When he is strong and the physical powers are full of vigor, he guards against quarrelsomeness. When he is old, and the animal powers are decayed, he guards against covetousness."

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 271 by Hangdawg13, posted 07-11-2004 11:11 PM Hangdawg13 has not replied

  
Rand Al'Thor
Inactive Member


Message 273 of 296 (123890)
07-12-2004 5:06 AM
Reply to: Message 271 by Hangdawg13
07-11-2004 11:11 PM


I disagree. Preoccupation with Christ is what is necessary in reaching a full life. To do this you cannot be preoccupied with yourself. But you cannot understand this, because you have not experienced it. You may think you are living a full life, but you are only half alive. How do I know? I've talked to people like you who eventually converted and discovered what it truly meant to be occupied with Christ and I have experienced it myself.
And what of people that were once christians and stopped believing? I have yet to hear of an Atheist that has never believed in god at one point or another. If life is so very different and better if you believe in god why would these people ever stop believing?

If ten thousand persons with Ph.D.'s say porn does not harm kids this means they are secret pedophiles and brazen liars.
-Willowtree

This message is a reply to:
 Message 271 by Hangdawg13, posted 07-11-2004 11:11 PM Hangdawg13 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 276 by Hangdawg13, posted 07-12-2004 2:08 PM Rand Al'Thor has not replied

  
sidelined
Member (Idle past 5908 days)
Posts: 3435
From: Edmonton Alberta Canada
Joined: 08-30-2003


Message 274 of 296 (123910)
07-12-2004 9:54 AM
Reply to: Message 271 by Hangdawg13
07-11-2004 11:11 PM


Hangdawg13
I disagree. Preoccupation with Christ is what is necessary in reaching a full life. To do this you cannot be preoccupied with yourself
Then we agree to disagree.However, I think it is arrogance on your part to assume that you know any person well enough to propose that your life is any fuller than theirs.
I've talked to people like you who eventually converted and discovered what it truly meant to be occupied with Christ and I have experienced it myself.
Again this is arrogant since the people who converted could just as easily be telling you such as a matter of social pressure while in your company. Your own point of view is meaningless since the fact remains that you cannot know the actual state of mind of the people to whom you speak. A person could just as easily be looking for accepance of a group and merely plays the role of a "christian".
But the issue is not what we do, but why we do it. What is our motivation? You (the humanist) are motivated by life's pleasures or by helping others who need you or for the advancement of society. The Christian is motivated in all things by love for God.
Love of God. Let us see. You claim to love something that you cannot give evidence of but insist is real. Other christians I have talked to state that God is love. So are we saying here that you are motivated by love for love?
OK.So now what are the boundaries concerning your relationship with your fellow man? Do you act differently than you did before becoming a christian and,if so,why and in what way?
A humble person occupied with God is never frustrated. As Paul says, "I have learned the secret of being content in any and every situation."
Oh,good Paul says that he is always content.Being as we have known Paul his whole life and watched him in all his interactions with people we can be certain that this is a true statement.
Getting back to lust: another way to look at it is that lust is the belief that obtaining a certain thing will make you happier.
I have never followed lust with the idea that it would make me happier and truth be told half the time it does not but I followed it just the same and I do not regret the paths that I have followed since they are the only ones that I was content to attend. Regret is for people who believe that one path offers more or less happiness than another when all it offers is simply another path.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 271 by Hangdawg13, posted 07-11-2004 11:11 PM Hangdawg13 has not replied

  
Dan Carroll
Inactive Member


Message 275 of 296 (123914)
07-12-2004 10:11 AM
Reply to: Message 246 by mike the wiz
07-10-2004 4:18 PM


Mike writes:
I fI have ignored anything please give an in-depth explanation.
Me writes:
enjoy the following encore presentation
Mike writes:
So we've established that adhering to Christ's words is always a part of being christian.
Freakin. Classic.

"Egos drone and pose alone, Like black balloons, all banged and blown
On a backwards river the infidels shiver in the stench of belief.
And tell my mama I'm a hundred years late; I'm over the rails and out of the race
The crippled psalms of an age that won't thaw are ringing in my ears"
-Beck

This message is a reply to:
 Message 246 by mike the wiz, posted 07-10-2004 4:18 PM mike the wiz has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 277 by mike the wiz, posted 07-12-2004 2:29 PM Dan Carroll has replied

  
Hangdawg13
Member (Idle past 751 days)
Posts: 1189
From: Texas
Joined: 05-30-2004


Message 276 of 296 (123975)
07-12-2004 2:08 PM
Reply to: Message 273 by Rand Al'Thor
07-12-2004 5:06 AM


If life is so very different and better if you believe in god why would these people ever stop believing?
Oh I don't know, perhaps bad things happen to them and they don't see God helping them, or perhaps they start to think that only empirical proof of something qualifies it as fact and the ultimate truth can never be known, or perhaps they are just grotesque cynics and doubt everything.
It takes knowledge and application of Bible doctrine in good faith for life to be "so very different and better". Few people stick with it tenaciously enough to make a difference. And even if they do, all people are suceptible to arrogance, the rejection of God and truth.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 273 by Rand Al'Thor, posted 07-12-2004 5:06 AM Rand Al'Thor has not replied

  
mike the wiz
Member
Posts: 4752
From: u.k
Joined: 05-24-2003


Message 277 of 296 (123980)
07-12-2004 2:29 PM
Reply to: Message 275 by Dan Carroll
07-12-2004 10:11 AM


Hey Dan, I'm sorry about my comments about people who act goons not being intelligent. I shouldn't have said that because that is not relevant to your character. Because you are always a goon .
Whereas, these others are just partakers of the goondom for quantum nano- seconds during self-deluded states, in the realm of the phantom postage sector. But I mean that in a nice way cos actually you do make posting more fun, so my comments were unnecessary. As for SleepingDragon - there's no helping him out of his bum, and he now thinks that pooh smells nice, and beautiful odours are wrongful.
Besides this we have been spanked for off topic rint rant. So hey what can I do? I feel we would never resolve the increasing and hard threatening manifold, bold old soul that transits our wormhole.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 275 by Dan Carroll, posted 07-12-2004 10:11 AM Dan Carroll has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 278 by jar, posted 07-12-2004 2:46 PM mike the wiz has not replied
 Message 279 by Dan Carroll, posted 07-12-2004 2:51 PM mike the wiz has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 278 of 296 (123986)
07-12-2004 2:46 PM
Reply to: Message 277 by mike the wiz
07-12-2004 2:29 PM


You found whatever's stash I see.

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 277 by mike the wiz, posted 07-12-2004 2:29 PM mike the wiz has not replied

  
Dan Carroll
Inactive Member


Message 279 of 296 (123987)
07-12-2004 2:51 PM
Reply to: Message 277 by mike the wiz
07-12-2004 2:29 PM


my comments were unnecessary.
On this, we agree wholeheartedly.

"Egos drone and pose alone, Like black balloons, all banged and blown
On a backwards river the infidels shiver in the stench of belief.
And tell my mama I'm a hundred years late; I'm over the rails and out of the race
The crippled psalms of an age that won't thaw are ringing in my ears"
-Beck

This message is a reply to:
 Message 277 by mike the wiz, posted 07-12-2004 2:29 PM mike the wiz has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 280 by mike the wiz, posted 07-12-2004 3:16 PM Dan Carroll has not replied

  
mike the wiz
Member
Posts: 4752
From: u.k
Joined: 05-24-2003


Message 280 of 296 (123991)
07-12-2004 3:16 PM
Reply to: Message 279 by Dan Carroll
07-12-2004 2:51 PM


Be fair, you did call me an idiot. So stop milking my cow.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 279 by Dan Carroll, posted 07-12-2004 2:51 PM Dan Carroll has not replied

  
mike the wiz
Member
Posts: 4752
From: u.k
Joined: 05-24-2003


Message 281 of 296 (123994)
07-12-2004 3:24 PM
Reply to: Message 263 by RAZD
07-11-2004 7:34 PM


Re: topic take-over
lust for a 6 time winner?
Now that's lust!!! A prime example of excess but no satisfaction.
But what say ye about the time trial stage up Alpe D'huez?
You can answer in my new topic, "Who will win the tour de France". Here; Tour
This message has been edited by mike the wiz, 07-12-2004 02:28 PM

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 Message 263 by RAZD, posted 07-11-2004 7:34 PM RAZD has not replied

  
nator
Member (Idle past 2170 days)
Posts: 12961
From: Ann Arbor
Joined: 12-09-2001


Message 282 of 296 (124099)
07-12-2004 7:02 PM
Reply to: Message 248 by jar
07-11-2004 11:18 AM


But all of these people espouse wildly different philosophies.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 248 by jar, posted 07-11-2004 11:18 AM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 284 by jar, posted 07-12-2004 7:17 PM nator has replied

  
nator
Member (Idle past 2170 days)
Posts: 12961
From: Ann Arbor
Joined: 12-09-2001


Message 283 of 296 (124102)
07-12-2004 7:10 PM
Reply to: Message 268 by mike the wiz
07-11-2004 9:14 PM


Re: Getting way off topic again.
quote:
As soon as we think we can go it alone we then start to be Godless, and think of ourselves as confident gods.
...except that our society has always created rules of behavior that are best for the group.
There are consequences to ignoring those rules.
See how being without God makes no difference WRT behavior?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 268 by mike the wiz, posted 07-11-2004 9:14 PM mike the wiz has not replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 284 of 296 (124103)
07-12-2004 7:17 PM
Reply to: Message 282 by nator
07-12-2004 7:02 PM


Keeps it interesting.

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 282 by nator, posted 07-12-2004 7:02 PM nator has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 285 by nator, posted 07-13-2004 4:16 PM jar has not replied

  
nator
Member (Idle past 2170 days)
Posts: 12961
From: Ann Arbor
Joined: 12-09-2001


Message 285 of 296 (124252)
07-13-2004 4:16 PM
Reply to: Message 284 by jar
07-12-2004 7:17 PM


With that I definitely agree.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 284 by jar, posted 07-12-2004 7:17 PM jar has not replied

  
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