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Author Topic:   Original Sin
contracycle
Inactive Member


Message 46 of 103 (175435)
01-10-2005 8:15 AM
Reply to: Message 42 by Phat
01-10-2005 6:51 AM


Re: OS = Asherah = Ishtar = Artemis
quote:
Arachnophilia, do you see any reason why Jesus Christ is NOT alive today?
Yes. The Romans have a reputation for not fucking around.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 42 by Phat, posted 01-10-2005 6:51 AM Phat has not replied

  
sidelined
Member (Idle past 5908 days)
Posts: 3435
From: Edmonton Alberta Canada
Joined: 08-30-2003


Message 47 of 103 (175442)
01-10-2005 9:07 AM
Reply to: Message 41 by Phat
01-10-2005 6:46 AM


Re: Original Sin: Accept no substitutes!
Phatboy
God does have a place in your thoughts, or none of these questions about the Bible would have any interest for you.
Actually god is not in my mind in any way other than as a point of reference to your belief old man.I can assure you that I am not of reservation in holding no beief where entities such as this are concerned.I can understand the attraction of comfoting thought but magic and renditions of ancient scrolls do not a sound arguement make.
I WOULD say that my belief says that you will not finish your "dance" on this planet before you will get the opportunity to meet God.
Ah,but my dance needs no god,it is complete in and of itself.A brief chance for the wonders then a satisfying sleep.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 41 by Phat, posted 01-10-2005 6:46 AM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 48 by Phat, posted 01-10-2005 1:13 PM sidelined has replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 48 of 103 (175512)
01-10-2005 1:13 PM
Reply to: Message 47 by sidelined
01-10-2005 9:07 AM


Original Sin---with No origin? What is the point?
sidelined writes:
Actually god is not in my mind in any way other than as a point of reference to your belief old man.
And so we chat, in cyber cafe. What is it that holds your interest?
sidelined writes:
Ah,but my dance needs no god,it is complete in and of itself.A brief chance for the wonders then a satisfying sleep.
Does your dance need no observers, then? What is it that makes dances so wonderous? Is it mere self actualization? Is it the performance of a job well done? Where is the Father who applauds? The Mother who cries.The children who laugh? We all die. How then would you know that your sleep was even satisfying? The serpent promised this:
NIV writes:
Gen 3:4-5
"You will not surely die," the serpent said to the woman. "For God knows that when you eat of it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil."
So when this dance is over, how will you even be satisfied in sleep? Is it that you will not have really died?
This message has been edited by Phatboy, 01-10-2005 11:15 AM

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riVeRraT
Member (Idle past 416 days)
Posts: 5788
From: NY USA
Joined: 05-09-2004


Message 49 of 103 (175525)
01-10-2005 1:39 PM
Reply to: Message 5 by Phat
01-06-2005 3:28 PM


Re: Not ALL Christians are in it for themselves
If sin was washed away at Baptism and weekly communion alone, why not go party it up on the weekend before Mass?
This is exactly how a number of catholics live.

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Replies to this message:
 Message 50 by 1.61803, posted 01-10-2005 1:55 PM riVeRraT has replied

  
1.61803
Member (Idle past 1504 days)
Posts: 2928
From: Lone Star State USA
Joined: 02-19-2004


Message 50 of 103 (175529)
01-10-2005 1:55 PM
Reply to: Message 49 by riVeRraT
01-10-2005 1:39 PM


Re: Not ALL Christians are in it for themselves
Hello,
RiverRat writes:
This is exactly how a number of catholics live.
"Let he who is without sin, cast the first stone."

"One is punished most for ones virtues" Fredrick Neitzche

This message is a reply to:
 Message 49 by riVeRraT, posted 01-10-2005 1:39 PM riVeRraT has replied

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riVeRraT
Member (Idle past 416 days)
Posts: 5788
From: NY USA
Joined: 05-09-2004


Message 51 of 103 (175531)
01-10-2005 2:09 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by berberry
01-06-2005 3:40 AM


Accountability
The way I see it, is original sin makes perfect sense, and it exists. It is plainly obvious, that anything wrong we do in our lives will get passed down to the next generation. We see this in DNA, family traits, and on a mental level as well. Any sin we do at all is always passed down, for it is not love, or the ways of heaven and God.
This is truth.
The other truth is that we are a human race. Everything we do wrong, or against God, affects the entire race. Adam and Eve were the start of that race, and we are all their children, there is no denying that.
It is plainly obvious in the ways of the world that is how it is. Once we start acting as a race, and helping each other no matter the cost, God will be pleased with all of us. For we cannot worship both God and money, but love one another the way we love our selves.
For a description of a perfect Godly community read Acts 2:42-47
The Fellowship of the Believers
42 They devoted themselves to the apostles' teaching and to the fellowship, to the breaking of bread and to prayer.
43 Everyone was filled with awe, and many wonders and miraculous signs were done by the apostles.
44 All the believers were together and had everything in common.
45 Selling their possessions and goods, they gave to anyone as he had need.
46 Every day they continued to meet together in the temple courts. They broke bread in their homes and ate together with glad and sincere hearts,
47 praising God and enjoying the favor of all the people. And the Lord added to their number daily those who were being saved.
(How awesome this must have been, living life the way God intended us to, they got this way because of what I write next)
When you baptise with water (when you are old enough to understand what it means) it is a public display of a devotion towards the Al-mighty. If you then repent and seek his ways, he will bless you with the Holy Spirit. Then you are both baptised with water and spirit.
Acts 1
5 For John baptized with[a] water, but in a few days you will be baptized with the Holy Spirit.
(This was Jesus's words to them)
Acts 2 (an account to what happen to them, and still happens today)
1 When the day of Pentecost came, they were all together in one place. 2 Suddenly a sound like the blowing of a violent wind came from heaven and filled the whole house where they were sitting.
3 They saw what seemed to be tongues of fire that separated and came to rest on each of them.
4 All of them were filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak in other tongues[a] as the Spirit enabled them.
At this point your sins a forgiven. remember, you must forgive others so that you too may be forgiven. Then your family will be blessed for generations to come. You still have to pay for your sins, but there are miracles that take place, and God may extend his grace on you.
How do we judge all this? We don't, we only can fully know what happens in our own lives with God.
To understand how it works, is through praying to God for comprehension, and reading the bible.
For me, when I first was baptised with the Holy Spirit, I found it easy to be mostly sin free. But as long as we are waiting for the enemy to be completely wiped out, it will be impossible to be completely sin free. Paul wrote:
Romans 7
14We know that the law is spiritual; but I am unspiritual, sold as a slave to sin. 15I do not understand what I do. For what I want to do I do not do, but what I hate I do. 16And if I do what I do not want to do, I agree that the law is good. 17As it is, it is no longer I myself who do it, but it is sin living in me. 18I know that nothing good lives in me, that is, in my sinful nature.[c] For I have the desire to do what is good, but I cannot carry it out. 19For what I do is not the good I want to do; no, the evil I do not want to do—this I keep on doing. 20Now if I do what I do not want to do, it is no longer I who do it, but it is sin living in me that does it.
21So I find this law at work: When I want to do good, evil is right there with me. 22For in my inner being I delight in God's law; 23but I see another law at work in the members of my body, waging war against the law of my mind and making me a prisoner of the law of sin at work within my members. 24What a wretched man I am! Who will rescue me from this body of death? 25Thanks be to God—through Jesus Christ our Lord!
(that is the gospel of Jesus christ!)
Unfortunatly, the deception placed on us runs deep, and the original morals of the bible are hidden in thousands of years of the enemies deception.
But your spirit wishes to know the truth, and you will.

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riVeRraT
Member (Idle past 416 days)
Posts: 5788
From: NY USA
Joined: 05-09-2004


Message 52 of 103 (175542)
01-10-2005 2:27 PM
Reply to: Message 50 by 1.61803
01-10-2005 1:55 PM


Re: Not ALL Christians are in it for themselves
I am not casting stones. I used to live that way, and saw many others live that way first hand.
I am not condemming them for it.
edit
Everyone sins, including me. Just that when you think you can go to church on Sunday, confess your sins to another man and then think your forgiven, doesn't make sense to me, or what I read in the bible.
This message has been edited by riVeRraT, 01-10-2005 14:29 AM

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sidelined
Member (Idle past 5908 days)
Posts: 3435
From: Edmonton Alberta Canada
Joined: 08-30-2003


Message 53 of 103 (175626)
01-10-2005 8:06 PM
Reply to: Message 48 by Phat
01-10-2005 1:13 PM


Re: Original Sin---with No origin? What is the point?
Phat writes:
What is it that holds your interest?
Light.
Does your dance need no observers, then? What is it that makes dances so wondrous?
The point is the dance so no observers are not necessary though they no doubt do.
I suppose the interaction of so many possibilities or more accurately that out of all the staggeringly huge combinations that could occur this one did and I get to watch it unfold.
I could fill days worth of typing and not even begin to scratch the wonders I have chanced upon, so it is difficult to do it justice.If you wish I could start an e mail correspondence to give some insight into this.
Is it mere self actualization? Is it the performance of a job well done? Where is the Father who applauds? The Mother who cries.The children who laugh? We all die. How then would you know that your sleep was even satisfying?
My my. So many questions. I think it best if you clarify your inquiry so that I do not fly off on a dozen different tangents.
So when this dance is over, how will you even be satisfied in sleep? Is it that you will not have really died?
The satisfaction is is that the sleep,this death that plagues men is literally nothing at all. No terrors,no cares no fears.Anyone can do it and it equalizes us all.We have built a society that eyes the clock as though a countdown to doom rather than a simple unwavering end to the individual.
So much frenzy to accomplish and so little in paying attention to the subtle and pervasive beauty of it all.We will devote countless hours to chasing fantasies and numbing our minds with images on a box.Try taking just yourself into the deep forest with only nature for company and see how much your mind chatters and needs to fill the silence with noise.We are so wound up all the time with really silly concerns that do not even originate with us but are fed to us regularly.
Like Thomas Carlyle wrote: "The tragedy of life is not what men suffer;but what they miss."
Edited by AdminPhat, : No reason given.

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Replies to this message:
 Message 55 by robinrohan, posted 01-11-2005 4:51 PM sidelined has replied

  
robinrohan
Inactive Member


Message 55 of 103 (175930)
01-11-2005 4:51 PM
Reply to: Message 53 by sidelined
01-10-2005 8:06 PM


Re: Original Sin---with No origin? What is the point?
I can give one view of Original Sin, or perhaps Innate Depravity would be the better term.
God established a Covenant with Adam and Eve. They broke the covenant. This covenant is called the "Covenant of Works."
A synonym for the Covenant of Works is "conscience." Now the Covenant of Works is as hard as nails. If you break it once, it is broken forever. The proof that the Covenant of Works is still operative in our hearts is that we know about it and cannot keep it. We constantly break the inner covenant of our conscience. After all, who has not told merely one lie, but a thousand?
This is the proof that we are innately depraved.
We know the covenant and cannot abide by it.

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Replies to this message:
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sidelined
Member (Idle past 5908 days)
Posts: 3435
From: Edmonton Alberta Canada
Joined: 08-30-2003


Message 56 of 103 (175932)
01-11-2005 4:59 PM
Reply to: Message 55 by robinrohan
01-11-2005 4:51 PM


Re: Original Sin---with No origin? What is the point?
robinrohan
Where in the bible do you find the verses dealing with the so called covenant of works?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 55 by robinrohan, posted 01-11-2005 4:51 PM robinrohan has replied

Replies to this message:
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robinrohan
Inactive Member


Message 57 of 103 (175936)
01-11-2005 5:09 PM
Reply to: Message 56 by sidelined
01-11-2005 4:59 PM


Re: Original Sin---with No origin? What is the point?
The term "Covenant of Works" is a Calvinist idea. I don't know that the phrase appears in the Bible. It's called the "Covenant of Works" to distinguish it from another covenant, the "Covenant of Grace" (Christ's ransoming). The Covenant of Grace does not demand "works" (good deeds), only faith.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 56 by sidelined, posted 01-11-2005 4:59 PM sidelined has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 58 by sidelined, posted 01-11-2005 5:22 PM robinrohan has replied

  
sidelined
Member (Idle past 5908 days)
Posts: 3435
From: Edmonton Alberta Canada
Joined: 08-30-2003


Message 58 of 103 (175942)
01-11-2005 5:22 PM
Reply to: Message 57 by robinrohan
01-11-2005 5:09 PM


Re: Original Sin---with No origin? What is the point?
robinrohan
I must be getting old. Would this covenant have something to do with the eating of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 57 by robinrohan, posted 01-11-2005 5:09 PM robinrohan has replied

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 Message 60 by robinrohan, posted 01-11-2005 5:40 PM sidelined has replied

  
Abshalom
Inactive Member


Message 59 of 103 (175944)
01-11-2005 5:26 PM
Reply to: Message 58 by sidelined
01-11-2005 5:22 PM


Re: Original Sin---with No origin? What is the point?
Yeah, evil tastes so damned good that it's addictive. That's what I'm getting outta Robin's post.

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robinrohan
Inactive Member


Message 60 of 103 (175950)
01-11-2005 5:40 PM
Reply to: Message 58 by sidelined
01-11-2005 5:22 PM


sidelined writes:
Would this covenant have something to do with the eating of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil?
Well, yes ...
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

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 Message 58 by sidelined, posted 01-11-2005 5:22 PM sidelined has replied

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 Message 61 by sidelined, posted 01-11-2005 5:46 PM robinrohan has replied

  
sidelined
Member (Idle past 5908 days)
Posts: 3435
From: Edmonton Alberta Canada
Joined: 08-30-2003


Message 61 of 103 (175951)
01-11-2005 5:46 PM
Reply to: Message 60 by robinrohan
01-11-2005 5:40 PM


robinrohan
Ok then in response to your previous statement here.
God established a Covenant with Adam and Eve. They broke the covenant. This covenant is called the "Covenant of Works."
A synonym for the Covenant of Works is "conscience."
How is it possible for a covenant dealing with consience be established before eating of the fruit since,after all,conscience is the knowledge of good and evil?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 60 by robinrohan, posted 01-11-2005 5:40 PM robinrohan has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 62 by Abshalom, posted 01-11-2005 5:57 PM sidelined has replied
 Message 64 by robinrohan, posted 01-11-2005 6:08 PM sidelined has replied

  
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