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Author Topic:   Religion Mandating Life
acmhttu001_2006
Inactive Member


Message 47 of 52 (18669)
10-01-2002 12:51 AM
Reply to: Message 44 by nos482
09-30-2002 2:55 PM


sad but true nos482
------------------
Anne C. McGuire
Cell and Molecular, Mathematics, Piano and Vocal Performance Majors
Chemistry and Physics minors
Thanks and have a nice day

This message is a reply to:
 Message 44 by nos482, posted 09-30-2002 2:55 PM nos482 has not replied

  
nos482
Inactive Member


Message 48 of 52 (18709)
10-01-2002 8:48 AM
Reply to: Message 46 by gene90
10-01-2002 12:33 AM


quote:
Originally posted by gene90:
That's too bad Anne because blind faith is what you are running on. Tell me, what proof have you there is no God?
What real proof do you have that does?
I think that she is just as wrong as you are, but atheists aren't the ones who are trying to impose their belief on all through the power of law. (Well atheists can't since they don't have a cohesive belief system like theists do.)

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 Message 46 by gene90, posted 10-01-2002 12:33 AM gene90 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 50 by gene90, posted 10-01-2002 7:38 PM nos482 has replied

  
RedVento
Inactive Member


Message 49 of 52 (18732)
10-01-2002 12:59 PM
Reply to: Message 5 by acmhttu001_2006
09-20-2002 11:19 AM


I would suggest that moral codes come from a baser form of instinct. Packs of dogs, herds of sheep, flocks of birds all exhibit a form of "moral code." They do whats good for the group. Well humans have this same instinct. As survival to propagate is the sole reason we truley exist we need to have means to survive.
Think about it, small groups of humans lived and worked together to surive, waring with rivals. As we became more "civilized" and our small groups enlarged until what we have today(a global clan) we have developed rules and laws to govern our actions. These moral codes are what enable us to continue to dominate the planet. Religion really has nothing to do with it. Religion is the natural progression from myth. Myths were stories to answer questions we had no answers to(The gods live in the sun, wind is Zues sneezing, whatever) As more people ascribed to these myths religions we born from them. Judiusm is no different, growing from the myths of Yahweh.
Groups that shared the same religous beliefs incorporated pre-existing moral codes into their dogman(ie 10 Commandments and the like) because those codes ensured(or were thought to ensure) the life of the religion. But the codes were already there, inborn.

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 Message 5 by acmhttu001_2006, posted 09-20-2002 11:19 AM acmhttu001_2006 has not replied

  
gene90
Member (Idle past 3822 days)
Posts: 1610
Joined: 12-25-2000


Message 50 of 52 (18758)
10-01-2002 7:38 PM
Reply to: Message 48 by nos482
10-01-2002 8:48 AM


[QUOTE][B]What real proof do you have that does?[/QUOTE]
[/B]
Been through this a million times already.
[QUOTE][B]I think that she is just as wrong as you are[/QUOTE]
[/B]
That's great, we actually agree on something. I see atheists as being at about the same level as theists as far as faith goes.
[QUOTE][B]but atheists aren't the ones who are trying to impose their belief on all through the power of law.[/QUOTE]
[/B]
I'm sure there are ultraconservatives out there that would disagree with you.
[QUOTE][B](Well atheists can't since they don't have a cohesive belief system like theists do.)[/QUOTE]
[/B]
Actually atheists can do this and have done this before. Look at what happened to Albania when the commies took over. Look at China today. The fact is atheism is a religious perspective (I hesitate to call it a religion since there is no supernatural aspect) and can become a state-backed intrusion upon human rights every bit as easily as any theistic religion can.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 48 by nos482, posted 10-01-2002 8:48 AM nos482 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 51 by nos482, posted 10-01-2002 8:08 PM gene90 has replied

  
nos482
Inactive Member


Message 51 of 52 (18763)
10-01-2002 8:08 PM
Reply to: Message 50 by gene90
10-01-2002 7:38 PM


Originally posted by gene90:
Been through this a million times already.
And a million times you failed to give a good answer.
That's great, we actually agree on something. I see atheists as being at about the same level as theists as far as faith goes.
It is more a lack of evidence for them than faith.
I'm sure there are ultraconservatives out there that would disagree with you.
Of course they see that preventing them from imposing their beliefs on all by rule of law as atheists imposing their non-belief on all. The thing is that atheists care more for your right to believe freely than most theists care about their right to not believe. The only good way to do this is the keep separation of Church and State completely separate.
Actually atheists can do this and have done this before. Look at what happened to Albania when the commies took over. Look at China today. The fact is atheism is a religious perspective (I hesitate to call it a religion since there is no supernatural aspect) and can become a state-backed intrusion upon human rights every bit as easily as any theistic religion can.
In these cases it has more to do with getting rid of the competition for control than in any real belief, or nonbelief. Also, in China their religions are not exactly theistic in nature.
[This message has been edited by nos482, 10-01-2002]

This message is a reply to:
 Message 50 by gene90, posted 10-01-2002 7:38 PM gene90 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 52 by gene90, posted 10-01-2002 8:15 PM nos482 has not replied

  
gene90
Member (Idle past 3822 days)
Posts: 1610
Joined: 12-25-2000


Message 52 of 52 (18764)
10-01-2002 8:15 PM
Reply to: Message 51 by nos482
10-01-2002 8:08 PM


[QUOTE][B]The thing is that atheists care more for your right to believe freely than most theists care about their right to not believe. The only good way to do this is the keep separation of Church and State completely separate.[/QUOTE]
[/B]
I also agree here. As I mentioned there are ultraconservatives who are claiming that 'atheists' (usually the ACLU) are out to impose non-belief on everyone. However it is those conservatives that are the ones trying to breach that seperation of church and state, they are the dangerous ones.
In fact I haven't seen any signs of an atheist coup in the Democratic world, it seems to be a Communist phenomenon.
[QUOTE][B]In these cases it has more to do with getting rid of the competition for control than in any real belief[/QUOTE]
[/B]
I think state religion is always about political control.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 51 by nos482, posted 10-01-2002 8:08 PM nos482 has not replied

  
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