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Author Topic:   God and the human mind
riVeRraT
Member (Idle past 416 days)
Posts: 5788
From: NY USA
Joined: 05-09-2004


Message 106 of 141 (142475)
09-14-2004 11:22 PM
Reply to: Message 100 by jar
09-14-2004 6:00 PM


Re: Rat, this goes way back.
But that is not the case of the world around us. Humans did not make the dinosaurs, nor have we yet made a galaxy, a star, a black hole or even a new force. We don't make gravity or even fully understand it.
I agree with you jar, but we don't fully understand all that, so how are we supposed to fully understand God. Or what he wants from us.
right now, we just have a rough interpretation of what everything is, and where it came from, and what was here before. we are still missing things to complete the big picture.
Also what does this teach us about our own feelings, and how we should treat each other? Or how does this get us into heaven? How do we get all those rules from looking at the stars and such?
However, I feel the bible paints a pretty complete picture, when combined with the Holy Spirit.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 100 by jar, posted 09-14-2004 6:00 PM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 107 by jar, posted 09-14-2004 11:31 PM riVeRraT has not replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 107 of 141 (142476)
09-14-2004 11:31 PM
Reply to: Message 106 by riVeRraT
09-14-2004 11:22 PM


Re: Rat, this goes way back.
Also what does this teach us about our own feelings, and how we should treat each other? Or how does this get us into heaven? How do we get all those rules from looking at the stars and such?
Well, as we learn more and gather more data, and use our minds, we are learning more and more about feelings. But we can never learn anything about the world around us from the Bible.
The Bible, and all religions, all moral systems, deal not with the how, but with WHY.
And that is what you can gain from the Bible.
and how we should treat each other?
That's very easy. Jesus said "Love GOD, love others as you love yourself". That's really all there is to it.
Or how does this get us into heaven?
You just don't even think about it. Follow the two commandments and you'll have a good life here and if there is an afterlife, a great one then.

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 106 by riVeRraT, posted 09-14-2004 11:22 PM riVeRraT has not replied

  
sidelined
Member (Idle past 5908 days)
Posts: 3435
From: Edmonton Alberta Canada
Joined: 08-30-2003


Message 108 of 141 (142478)
09-15-2004 12:24 AM
Reply to: Message 95 by riVeRraT
09-14-2004 10:03 AM


riVeRrat
Question, just because something seems "magical" does that mean we should dis-regard it if there is no logical explanation at the current moment?
No not disregard,investigate.As for my atheism I have never been able to reconcile the notion of a god in my head with a universe such as this one. I have heard endless arguements each of which I found lacking and usually defensive in nature.There is also the matter of postulating a more complex entity to explain an already complex world.In doing so I find it is necessary to expand the realm of speculation entailed by a god to the point of ad absurdum while gaining no further clarity on this world.
This is not to say I am right or wrong. I have said before that I am not seeking truth but rather clarity{as well as a good belly laugh}
Of this though I am quite sure, A god put together by the writings of men under duress of politics is a poor god indeed and never one I would show allegience to even if I believed in god.
You know what I would consider to be hell? The promise of eternal life. Sounds good on the surface but endless existence think on it.Say you start with beating methusela and hit a thousand.Now think that much a thousand times over brings us to 1,000,000.Step up to the next level to 1,000,000 of those and we arrive already at 1 trillion years.Multiply again and you are into scientific notation at 1 times 10 to the 18 power.Repeat that as many times as you wish and you will not even show up on the scale of forever.
Let me ask you how long you would like to live in even heaven?
This message has been edited by sidelined, 09-14-2004 11:25 PM

What delightful hosts they are-Love and Laughter!
Lingeringly I turn away at this late hour,yet glad
They have not withheld from me their high hospitality.
So at the door I pause to press their hands once more
And say,"So fine a time!Thank you both...and goodbye.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 95 by riVeRraT, posted 09-14-2004 10:03 AM riVeRraT has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 109 by Phat, posted 09-15-2004 4:16 AM sidelined has replied
 Message 112 by riVeRraT, posted 09-15-2004 10:33 AM sidelined has replied
 Message 115 by Rei, posted 09-15-2004 2:15 PM sidelined has not replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 109 of 141 (142490)
09-15-2004 4:16 AM
Reply to: Message 108 by sidelined
09-15-2004 12:24 AM


Two sides to every Coin......
sidelined writes:
You know what I would consider to be hell? The promise of eternal life. Sounds good on the surface but endless existence think on it.Say you start with beating methusela and hit a thousand.Now think that much a thousand times over brings us to 1,000,000.Step up to the next level to 1,000,000 of those and we arrive already at 1 trillion years.Multiply again and you are into scientific notation at 1 times 10 to the 18 power.Repeat that as many times as you wish and you will not even show up on the scale of forever.
OK. So you are basically saying that forever is too darn long? What of the man born in a family of modest means who never traveled anywhere beyond the family farm. He knew 30 people his whole life until he got drafted. He went to War and died. This poor soul! Did he cease to exist? What would any of us give to have lived just a bit longer? To have seen the advances of the world. To have loved and raised a family? To have accomplished something unique! Even to be able to post in THIS chatroom!! What is the point of his life??? Are you the one who said to me long ago in another post that the point of life is the dance and that we are the dancers? That immortality is passed through our children? Living forever in Heaven will not be unbearable. I will agree with you on one point. We need to live for today and not for a future event.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 108 by sidelined, posted 09-15-2004 12:24 AM sidelined has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 110 by sidelined, posted 09-15-2004 8:58 AM Phat has not replied

  
sidelined
Member (Idle past 5908 days)
Posts: 3435
From: Edmonton Alberta Canada
Joined: 08-30-2003


Message 110 of 141 (142497)
09-15-2004 8:58 AM
Reply to: Message 109 by Phat
09-15-2004 4:16 AM


Re: Two sides to every Coin......
Phatboy
Are you the one who said to me long ago in another post that the point of life is the dance and that we are the dancers? That immortality is passed through our children? Living forever in Heaven will not be unbearable
Yes I said dance your dance then pass the music to the next generation of dancers.Life,not immortality,is passed to our children and we live on in them.Heaven would be unbearable because if the common notion of heaven where diseae and injury and death are no more and that we live in bodies of perfect health how many times can you do even your favorite things over that after a trillion years would be maddening.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 109 by Phat, posted 09-15-2004 4:16 AM Phat has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 121 by sad2kno, posted 09-15-2004 10:12 PM sidelined has not replied

  
riVeRraT
Member (Idle past 416 days)
Posts: 5788
From: NY USA
Joined: 05-09-2004


Message 111 of 141 (142513)
09-15-2004 10:30 AM
Reply to: Message 105 by jar
09-14-2004 10:56 PM


I guess my point is correct thinking could possibly lead to incorrect answers.
I was 5, I wondered about it, until I finally learned how it worked.
So if there is no way to think wrong (tell me you never meet someone who thought wrong) why do we need to learn how to think?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 105 by jar, posted 09-14-2004 10:56 PM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 113 by jar, posted 09-15-2004 10:44 AM riVeRraT has replied

  
riVeRraT
Member (Idle past 416 days)
Posts: 5788
From: NY USA
Joined: 05-09-2004


Message 112 of 141 (142514)
09-15-2004 10:33 AM
Reply to: Message 108 by sidelined
09-15-2004 12:24 AM


You know what I would consider to be hell? The promise of eternal life.
You too are thinking linerally. Life after death, would most probably not have time, so we have no idea of how it would actually be. If it was a life similar to this, yes it would get borimng, but I do not suspect this.
Question, do you believe in infinity?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 108 by sidelined, posted 09-15-2004 12:24 AM sidelined has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 114 by Phat, posted 09-15-2004 1:57 PM riVeRraT has replied
 Message 117 by sidelined, posted 09-15-2004 7:35 PM riVeRraT has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 113 of 141 (142515)
09-15-2004 10:44 AM
Reply to: Message 111 by riVeRraT
09-15-2004 10:30 AM


So if there is no way to think wrong (tell me you never meet someone who thought wrong) why do we need to learn how to think?
Of course there are no ways to think wrong, but there are ways to think better. There are steps you can learn that will help you get better results. Thinking is a skill. It is something that you need to learn.
One example is discrimination. That is an important task and one that is seldom taught. And as data becomes increasingly available, discrimination will become increasingly important.

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 111 by riVeRraT, posted 09-15-2004 10:30 AM riVeRraT has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 118 by riVeRraT, posted 09-15-2004 8:33 PM jar has not replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 114 of 141 (142539)
09-15-2004 1:57 PM
Reply to: Message 112 by riVeRraT
09-15-2004 10:33 AM


Question, do you believe in infinity?
I believe in an infinite God. I cannot fully understand Him for He is beyond my comprehension, as infinity is.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 112 by riVeRraT, posted 09-15-2004 10:33 AM riVeRraT has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 119 by riVeRraT, posted 09-15-2004 8:34 PM Phat has not replied

  
Rei
Member (Idle past 7013 days)
Posts: 1546
From: Iowa City, IA
Joined: 09-03-2003


Message 115 of 141 (142542)
09-15-2004 2:15 PM
Reply to: Message 108 by sidelined
09-15-2004 12:24 AM


I would gladly take immortal life, under one condition: that my mind remain limited, just as human minds are limited today. There is only so much that your mind can store; it isn't some infinite sink of data. Over time, data gets faded or completely lost. Consequently, life will be ever-changing, and you will never reach a tedious steady-state.

"Illuminant light,
illuminate me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 108 by sidelined, posted 09-15-2004 12:24 AM sidelined has not replied

  
mike the wiz
Member
Posts: 4752
From: u.k
Joined: 05-24-2003


Message 116 of 141 (142601)
09-15-2004 7:25 PM
Reply to: Message 45 by Gilgamesh
09-09-2004 4:22 AM


Re: Brilliant
Thereafter followed the most astounding three pages of the usual testamonial dialogue that either completely failed to address the questions or completely confirmed your unstated premise.
Well, why am I obliged to "test" my God anyway? Because you say so?
If I choose to have faith and not doubt, then Gilgamesh is dissapointed in me.(I can bare this ) However, if I choose to have faith? "Have faith in God", I please God.
Nevertheless, I have heard all about post-hoc reasoning and confirmation bias, it is not compatible with biblical scripture....If anything, it preacheth "doubt". Now basically, you're cooking and icing and buffing up "doubt" - cook it, ice it, dice it and slice it; tart it all day, but you ain't gonna get a sail here.
He that has truth and faith, is not going to want of the dung any longer. If I have good steak and cakes, will I return to sucking upon the dung heaps? I urge that you de-sensitize yourself to doubt, fellow servant.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 45 by Gilgamesh, posted 09-09-2004 4:22 AM Gilgamesh has not replied

  
sidelined
Member (Idle past 5908 days)
Posts: 3435
From: Edmonton Alberta Canada
Joined: 08-30-2003


Message 117 of 141 (142607)
09-15-2004 7:35 PM
Reply to: Message 112 by riVeRraT
09-15-2004 10:33 AM


riVeRrat
Life after death, would most probably not have time
Which means nothing would get done.This sounds like heaven for politicians.
My objection lies with the absence of death which to an adrenalne junkie like myself is tantamount to hell. There is no thrill in attempting things of a daring nature if the chance of dying from the attempt is not present.
I do not believe in infinity.I understand the concept of infinity,as in mathematical infinities which exist independent of belief.Just what do you mean by infinity?
This message has been edited by sidelined, 09-15-2004 06:41 PM

This message is a reply to:
 Message 112 by riVeRraT, posted 09-15-2004 10:33 AM riVeRraT has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 120 by riVeRraT, posted 09-15-2004 8:45 PM sidelined has replied

  
riVeRraT
Member (Idle past 416 days)
Posts: 5788
From: NY USA
Joined: 05-09-2004


Message 118 of 141 (142615)
09-15-2004 8:33 PM
Reply to: Message 113 by jar
09-15-2004 10:44 AM


And all these years I was taught not to discriminate.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 113 by jar, posted 09-15-2004 10:44 AM jar has not replied

  
riVeRraT
Member (Idle past 416 days)
Posts: 5788
From: NY USA
Joined: 05-09-2004


Message 119 of 141 (142616)
09-15-2004 8:34 PM
Reply to: Message 114 by Phat
09-15-2004 1:57 PM


Then you have nothing to worry about, with infinity, you will never get bored.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 114 by Phat, posted 09-15-2004 1:57 PM Phat has not replied

  
riVeRraT
Member (Idle past 416 days)
Posts: 5788
From: NY USA
Joined: 05-09-2004


Message 120 of 141 (142617)
09-15-2004 8:45 PM
Reply to: Message 117 by sidelined
09-15-2004 7:35 PM


Infinity, as in there is no end to anything. The universe could go on and on, or there could be other universe, other demensions.
Or do you believe that we are bound by the space we reside in, or our current known universe.
My objection lies with the absence of death which to an adrenalne junkie like myself is tantamount to hell. There is no thrill in attempting things of a daring nature if the chance of dying from the attempt is not present.
I found this statement so intriquing. At first I didn't know how to answer it, but then I prayed, and the first thing that came to my mind was this explainantion:
The feeling you are trying to achieve by doing these daring stunts or things (I know about it, I seek those same feelings, but not as much as you maybe) would not be sought after in heaven. Heaven would fill you with another feeling that would more than take its place and your search for a thrill would not exist for you anymore. It would be a whole new type of enviroment, that would have its own thrills.
I felt as though God was telling me: why are you even asking me that question? Maybe that feeling you get is only a fraction of what you will recieve in heaven?
Sorry, I know there is no proof of this, and its not much to go on, but it is what came to my mind, and I thought I would share it with you. Take it for whats it is worth please.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 117 by sidelined, posted 09-15-2004 7:35 PM sidelined has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 122 by sidelined, posted 09-16-2004 1:29 AM riVeRraT has replied

  
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