Omniscience, Omnipotence, the Fall & Logical Contradictions.

OK I will agree then that God is responsible. Does this then imply that humans are not also responsible for choosing or rejecting Jesus Christ?Should God have not allowed evil to exist?Lets try and defend Lucifer for a moment...before his fall from heaven.Should Lucifer have told God that regardless of what he (Lucifer) chose to do or become, God was responsible for creating him and giving him free choice to question authority?Edited by Phat, : No reason given.

If God was omniscient, He should have known that without being told. If he was omnipotent, why not? Why is evil "necessary"?

This gets back to my theory of potential evil versus actual evil. First lets ask what evil is. I believe that evil is simple disobedience of truth. Lucifer chose simple disobedience. He may have argued that it was merely the right of free choice. He may have argued that there is no door # 2. That there is no door # 1, even. If God was an absolute, however, Lucifer was arguing against that absolute. He was essentially arguing that truth is relative. That He as an angel should have the same rights as the absolute Creator.

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OK I will agree then that God is responsible. Does this then imply that humans are not also responsible for choosing or rejecting Jesus Christ?

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I don't think it does. What do you mean by "choosing or rejecting Jesus Christ" and what sort of responsibility are you talking about ?

Message 289Doesn't really support this does it?ABEOh yeah thanks for editing out the crap you originally had. It was condescending, insulting.Edited by Theodoric, : read email notification with original post from Phat

But according to you your god knew along who would "reject" this jesus guy so therefore since he is all powerful he is the one that made people reject.Edited by Theodoric, : No reason given.

Say that you are the director of a play. It is a long play and the characters are told that they can ad lib their lines, actions, and emotions throughout the play. You however foreknow the way that the play will be acted. Does this then make you in direct control of what is ad libbed, simply because you see the eventual script?Just because God foreknows what you may or may not decide, conclude, or rationalize does not mean that He made you think it, believe it, or say it.

I think I see what you mean. If I as a human agent can truly freely decide something, God is not all powerful since He cant make me decide otherwise. Is this what you are suggesting?

Ding, ding, ding, Johnny we have a winner.Cause since your god already knows what you are going to do then there really isn't any free will is there. It means EVERYTHING is preordained.

Faith writes:
Yes, of course. God is omniscient and omnipotent. He would have planned for all contingencies down to the last moment on earth.How does it follow that God is "omniscient and omnipotent" when Jesus said "I, (the son of this god) am the Truth, and the way and the life" for anyone to access the Father, who logically then, would correspondingly HAVE to be Reality, itself?And, the Reality which unfolds leaving Truth in its wake subjects the future to its own Law of Probability.Since probability is a denominator in the events to follow the ever unfolding change in the past realities, God can not be "omniscient and omnipotent."
Indeed, the Facts of Reality that constrain and define The Truth also subject Reality to the same conditions of restraint.

Should Lucifer have told God that regardless of what he (Lucifer) chose to do or become, God was responsible for creating him and giving him free choice to question authority?No, because God has a Law of Survival of the Fittest, and requires even Lucifer to Adapt to Realities or become extinct in the fire hell of the magma that will cover his bones forevermore.

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OK I will agree then that God is responsible. Does this then imply that humans are not also responsible for choosing or rejecting Jesus Christ?

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No, it doesn't. Assuming the Christian god exists and possesses the attributes usually attributed to him (omnipotence, omniscience, and omnibenevolence), the responsibility would rest with him to save humans, not on humans (who lack omniscience, omnipotence, and omnibenevolence) to "choose or reject" Jesus.

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Should God have not allowed evil to exist?

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Absolutely. The existence of evil makes the possibility of an omniscient, omnipotent, omnibenevolent god existing vanishingly small, if not outright impossible. The evidential problem of evil is, in my opinion, devastating to Christianity (and Islam, Sikhism, or any religion that posits an omnimax god), and is the biggest problem for theism in general.Consider this syllogism:P1: An omniscient, omnipotent, omnibenevolent god exists.
P2: This god, being omniscient, knows how to prevent all evil, being omnipotent, has the power to prevent all evil, and being omnibenevolent, wants to prevent all evil.
C1: Therefore, it is vanishingly unlikely that evil exists.
P3: Evil exists
C2: P3 contradicts C1
C3: Therefore, following C2, it is vanishingly unlikely that an omniscient, omnipotent, omnibenevolent god exists. Edited by Finn, : typos

so if everything is preordained, why not choose Jesus?the other alternative is the false spirit that says it itself is god.and even if you don't believe that, why not choose Jesus anyway?Edited by Phat, :

I disagree. Lucifer had the original free will and chose his own alternate reality...(by Gods will). God already knew the way out of this potential dualism and this is why Jesus was in the beginning with the Father. The responsibility to save humans was thus already present, even before Lucifer created a need. This sounds like a lie from the evil one himself. He claims that God doesn't in fact exist and that we are all potentially divine.Edited by Phat, : added dogma

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Lucifer had the original free will and chose his own alternate reality...(by Gods will). God already knew the way out of this potential dualism and this is why Jesus was in the beginning with the Father. The responsibility to save humans was thus already present, even before Lucifer created a need.

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(Assuming theism is true)Why would God go through such an absurd charade, which led to the death, suffering, and damnation of billions, rather than simply eliminating the possibility of evil in the first place? Why create evil only to destroy it? Such actions are highly irrational, not to mention extremely immoral.