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Author Topic:   Is man inherently good or inherently evil?
riVeRraT
Member (Idle past 416 days)
Posts: 5788
From: NY USA
Joined: 05-09-2004


Message 241 of 271 (156136)
11-05-2004 8:04 AM
Reply to: Message 238 by Rrhain
11-05-2004 2:51 AM


Re: Back up
Therefore, for Jesus to claim to be god proves that he could not possibly be the Messiah. Anyone who claims otherwise is violating the primary concept of Judaism: One god.
Ha! Concept. So God is a concept now.
You seem to be confusing the word "deny" with "persecute." The fact that Jews do not accept Jesus as the Messiah is not persecution.
Jews are not refusing to accept the divinity of Jesus out of spite.
No they do it out of fear. Fear of losing power and control, the same as 2,000 years ago.
In other words, Jesus isn't god. Jesus can't be god. If Jesus were god, that would violate the very first commandment. You really have no idea what Judaism is, do you? But then again, how can you when you readily admit that you haven't even bothered to read the Old Testament?
The LORD God made garments of skin for Adam and his wife and clothed them. 22 And the LORD God said, "The man has now become like one of us, knowing good and evil.
Like one of us.
Then God said, "Let us make man in our image, in our likeness,
Our
Doesn't sound like one God to me. Not to mention that the three are one, so if you believe in Jesus, you still believe in one God.
Apparently, it makes a great deal of difference to you. You're the one who keeps calling Jews fools for not accepting Jesus.
Being fooled, and never being taught the truth, is not being a fool.
The Jews I have spoken with are forbidden to even talk about Jesus. This order comes from their rabbi. They never discuss him, ever. So how would you get to know him?
Question: Does being married to a Jew make you a Jew?
Does being a Jew make you not a Jew?
What the heck is your point? The articla cleary states, for the 3rd time, that there are Jews involved, as well as people who are married to Jews.
As I have said more than once comparing Orthodox Christianity to Catholicism: All the ritual, twice the guilt!
I will agree with you there. I am not to fond of Catholism either.
Even if the Jews do not accept JfJ, which is fine by me, there still are people who are Jewish, that are not Jewish by marraige, but by birth that belong to it. That would mean that at leas some of them are genuin, that is what I am trying to tell you, if you haven't got it yet.
God isn't here to tell us.
But the Holy Spirit is. Tell me, have you ever felt the Holy Spirit? Have you decided it was fake?
"Moot." The word is "moot." It is pronounced like what you would normally associate with a cow but with a /t/ on the end. Not "myoot." "Mute" means "silent." "Moot" means "worthy of discussion but not capable of actual effect." That's why lawyers go to "moot court." The cases being argued are highly valuable and you need to go through them in order to understand the issues involved. However, the results will not change anything. It is argument for enlightenment's sake.
Thank you.
I do appreciate more direct responses to, thanks. I have no problem debating with you, or even learning a few things from you. My mind is not closed. As long as we keep the conversations real.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 238 by Rrhain, posted 11-05-2004 2:51 AM Rrhain has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 258 by Rrhain, posted 11-07-2004 5:09 PM riVeRraT has replied

  
riVeRraT
Member (Idle past 416 days)
Posts: 5788
From: NY USA
Joined: 05-09-2004


Message 242 of 271 (156138)
11-05-2004 8:07 AM
Reply to: Message 240 by Rrhain
11-05-2004 3:08 AM


I'm not the one condemning people to hell and calling Jews idiots.
Sure you are rice-a-roni boy.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 240 by Rrhain, posted 11-05-2004 3:08 AM Rrhain has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 243 by AdminNosy, posted 11-05-2004 10:25 AM riVeRraT has replied
 Message 259 by Rrhain, posted 11-07-2004 5:16 PM riVeRraT has replied

  
AdminNosy
Administrator
Posts: 4754
From: Vancouver, BC, Canada
Joined: 11-11-2003


Message 243 of 271 (156168)
11-05-2004 10:25 AM
Reply to: Message 242 by riVeRraT
11-05-2004 8:07 AM


Useless post
Since your post contributes nothing to the discussion and doesn't exactly make you look any smarter; why bother posting it?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 242 by riVeRraT, posted 11-05-2004 8:07 AM riVeRraT has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 244 by riVeRraT, posted 11-05-2004 10:32 AM AdminNosy has replied

  
riVeRraT
Member (Idle past 416 days)
Posts: 5788
From: NY USA
Joined: 05-09-2004


Message 244 of 271 (156170)
11-05-2004 10:32 AM
Reply to: Message 243 by AdminNosy
11-05-2004 10:25 AM


Re: Useless post
He understands what it means.
He claims that he doesn't condemn anyone to hell, yet he does it in every other post, whether he is joking or not.
Since he does it and it doesn't contribute anything to the discussion, and also doesn't make him look any smarter, ask him why he bothers posting it.
I am detecting favoritism here, not good.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 243 by AdminNosy, posted 11-05-2004 10:25 AM AdminNosy has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 245 by AdminNosy, posted 11-05-2004 10:56 AM riVeRraT has replied

  
AdminNosy
Administrator
Posts: 4754
From: Vancouver, BC, Canada
Joined: 11-11-2003


Message 245 of 271 (156176)
11-05-2004 10:56 AM
Reply to: Message 244 by riVeRraT
11-05-2004 10:32 AM


Re: Useless post
Now I understand where that comes from.
Rrhain does have an annoying habit of pasting in that little bit. However, he does it if you bring up Pascal's wager which you continue to do. If you understand what it is saying you would either show what you think is wrong with it or stop voiceing a form of Pascal's wager.
If you think he's doing that "every other post" then you are probably voicing the wager pretty often. He does have another annoying habit of repeating himself if someone ignores what they have been told before.
Perhaps you'd like to propose a topic on Pascal's wager and see if you can put a stop to it once and for all.
This message has been edited by AdminNosy, 11-05-2004 10:56 AM

This message is a reply to:
 Message 244 by riVeRraT, posted 11-05-2004 10:32 AM riVeRraT has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 252 by riVeRraT, posted 11-05-2004 2:29 PM AdminNosy has not replied

  
ramoss
Member (Idle past 612 days)
Posts: 3228
Joined: 08-11-2004


Message 246 of 271 (156184)
11-05-2004 11:29 AM
Reply to: Message 205 by Rrhain
10-31-2004 9:46 PM


No, in judaism Jesus was not a prophet. The age of prophecy ended at the first disporia.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 205 by Rrhain, posted 10-31-2004 9:46 PM Rrhain has not replied

  
ramoss
Member (Idle past 612 days)
Posts: 3228
Joined: 08-11-2004


Message 247 of 271 (156185)
11-05-2004 11:35 AM
Reply to: Message 210 by riVeRraT
11-01-2004 12:53 AM


You say you focus on what Jesus said.
Where did Jesus say he was 'The only begotten son of god'. (Not what was claimed for him, but what he said)
Where did he say unambiguously say he was god?? (well, words atributed to him at least).

This message is a reply to:
 Message 210 by riVeRraT, posted 11-01-2004 12:53 AM riVeRraT has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 253 by riVeRraT, posted 11-05-2004 2:39 PM ramoss has not replied

  
ramoss
Member (Idle past 612 days)
Posts: 3228
Joined: 08-11-2004


Message 248 of 271 (156189)
11-05-2004 11:40 AM
Reply to: Message 211 by riVeRraT
11-01-2004 12:59 AM


Assimulation.. the few people in the Jews for Jesus that actually HAVE jewish background generally are people that have not been properly educated. Many of them leave.
Most of the so called 'Jews for Jesus' never grew up in a Jewish household. Many do not even have Jewish ancestory. The ministry is a fraud.
I mean, look at it's board of directors. Look on how many people on the board fo directors are Southern Baptist ministers. Look where the funding for the J4J come from. That should give you an indication of
what it is.. a mask by southern baptists to try to convert the jews.
Yes, some have converted. Others converted, and then left. I also know
several ones that were Christians, went to the J4J, and then dropped then, and converted to Judaism.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 211 by riVeRraT, posted 11-01-2004 12:59 AM riVeRraT has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 254 by riVeRraT, posted 11-05-2004 2:43 PM ramoss has not replied

  
ramoss
Member (Idle past 612 days)
Posts: 3228
Joined: 08-11-2004


Message 249 of 271 (156191)
11-05-2004 11:42 AM
Reply to: Message 212 by riVeRraT
11-01-2004 1:03 AM


Well, you know..
For someone to be the Messiah in the Jewish sense, he
1) has to be just a man, decended from the male line from David.
2) Insure that the temple is in Jersualum
3) Become the King of Israel.. without any foreign influence.
4) Make the Torah the center of all the worship of all the world.
5) Insure eternal peace in this world.
DOesn't seem like Jesus did that. The 'potential' messiahs only get one chance.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 212 by riVeRraT, posted 11-01-2004 1:03 AM riVeRraT has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 255 by riVeRraT, posted 11-05-2004 2:43 PM ramoss has not replied

  
ramoss
Member (Idle past 612 days)
Posts: 3228
Joined: 08-11-2004


Message 250 of 271 (156194)
11-05-2004 11:47 AM
Reply to: Message 225 by riVeRraT
11-01-2004 7:57 AM


Except, of course, he didn't.
THere is no world peace.
There is no TOrah for the center of all religious observsne of the world,and the temple in jersualum as the center.
He did not have children
He did not have added years to his life.
He did not bring all the jews back to Israel.
SO, he did not fullfill the requiremetns.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 225 by riVeRraT, posted 11-01-2004 7:57 AM riVeRraT has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 256 by riVeRraT, posted 11-05-2004 2:48 PM ramoss has not replied

  
ramoss
Member (Idle past 612 days)
Posts: 3228
Joined: 08-11-2004


Message 251 of 271 (156199)
11-05-2004 11:50 AM
Reply to: Message 236 by riVeRraT
11-03-2004 7:58 AM


Can you show secular evidence from within 10 years of his death that he even existed???
This message has been edited by ramoss, 11-05-2004 11:51 AM

This message is a reply to:
 Message 236 by riVeRraT, posted 11-03-2004 7:58 AM riVeRraT has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 257 by riVeRraT, posted 11-05-2004 2:50 PM ramoss has not replied

  
riVeRraT
Member (Idle past 416 days)
Posts: 5788
From: NY USA
Joined: 05-09-2004


Message 252 of 271 (156236)
11-05-2004 2:29 PM
Reply to: Message 245 by AdminNosy
11-05-2004 10:56 AM


Re: Useless post
As soon as I understand what it is. I just started reading up on it.
So far it looks silly.
E(wager against God) = f2*p + f3*(1 − p)
That is right in line with the description of Love being:
I know that love is merely an evolutionary compulsion and a product of the chemical state of my brain.
Awesome stuff?
How dry.
I don't think that line would work well when proposing to your wife to be.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 245 by AdminNosy, posted 11-05-2004 10:56 AM AdminNosy has not replied

  
riVeRraT
Member (Idle past 416 days)
Posts: 5788
From: NY USA
Joined: 05-09-2004


Message 253 of 271 (156238)
11-05-2004 2:39 PM
Reply to: Message 247 by ramoss
11-05-2004 11:35 AM


Matthew 27
42"He saved others," they said, "but he can't save himself! He's the King of Israel! Let him come down now from the cross, and we will believe in him. 43He trusts in God. Let God rescue him now if he wants him, for he said, 'I am the Son of God.' " 44In the same way the robbers who were crucified with him also heaped insults on him.
They claimed, he claimed to be the Son of God. Jesus didn't write any of the bible, so anything that is in there is going to be what someone else claims.
John 14
6Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me. 7If you really knew me, you would know[1] my Father as well. From now on, you do know him and have seen him."
8Philip said, "Lord, show us the Father and that will be enough for us."
If he wasn't the son, why would we have to go through him?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 247 by ramoss, posted 11-05-2004 11:35 AM ramoss has not replied

  
riVeRraT
Member (Idle past 416 days)
Posts: 5788
From: NY USA
Joined: 05-09-2004


Message 254 of 271 (156239)
11-05-2004 2:43 PM
Reply to: Message 248 by ramoss
11-05-2004 11:40 AM


That all may very well be true. Like I said before. I only know one person, and she was of Jewish birth, and all her family are Jewish. She is trying to convert them. It doesn't matter to me who founded what. It matters what is in their hearts.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 248 by ramoss, posted 11-05-2004 11:40 AM ramoss has not replied

  
riVeRraT
Member (Idle past 416 days)
Posts: 5788
From: NY USA
Joined: 05-09-2004


Message 255 of 271 (156240)
11-05-2004 2:43 PM
Reply to: Message 249 by ramoss
11-05-2004 11:42 AM


Thank you, can you tell me which prophets said that?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 249 by ramoss, posted 11-05-2004 11:42 AM ramoss has not replied

  
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