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Author Topic:   Evangelical Support Group
GDR
Member
Posts: 6202
From: Sidney, BC, Canada
Joined: 05-22-2005
Member Rating: 1.9


Message 52 of 331 (398362)
04-30-2007 1:26 PM
Reply to: Message 50 by iceage
04-30-2007 12:27 PM


Re: Listening To Radio Preachers and Teachers
iceage writes:
  • Sacrifice of life as gift to god
  • Blood for atonement of sins
  • Control of nature and the outcome of history as a consequence of the combination of obedient behavior and supplication of prayers (i.e. spells)
  • The vision of god as a warrior
  • It seems to me that was one thing that Christ accomplished. He put an end to things like human sacrifice. We now take communion instead of having an actual blood sacrifice. Christ was also a King that embodied the idea of achieving peace by peaceful rather than by military means

    Everybody is entitled to my opinion.

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 50 by iceage, posted 04-30-2007 12:27 PM iceage has replied

    Replies to this message:
     Message 56 by iceage, posted 04-30-2007 3:00 PM GDR has replied

      
    GDR
    Member
    Posts: 6202
    From: Sidney, BC, Canada
    Joined: 05-22-2005
    Member Rating: 1.9


    Message 74 of 331 (398489)
    05-01-2007 12:29 AM
    Reply to: Message 56 by iceage
    04-30-2007 3:00 PM


    Re: Listening To Radio Preachers and Teachers
    iceage writes:
    GDR my point it that it is a variation, or really an abstraction, on a old and primitive theme. The origins are still firmly rooted in a time when demons and superstition ruled the thoughts of men. The concepts are common to many early religions that formed as humans transition from hunter/gathers to agricultural city-states.
    All of the old mythologies had some rather bizarre ideas. Actually Jewish mythology, (I believe it to be God's chosen mythology), unlike Egyptian, Greek or Roman mythology was the first to really suggest that there was a moral code to follow. It talked about love and gave us the ten commandments. There were still some rather barbaric aspects to it, but they were being slowly weeded out. I good example is the story of Abraham being prepared to sacrifice Issac. I suggest that this was a revelation to the Jews that human sacrifice was contrary to the will of God.
    iceage writes:
    Viewed objectively the concept of communion sounds so strange and surreal. If you were to explain the concept to say an alien being or some otherwise objective intelligence, I believe they would find the notion extremely strange, archaic and quaint, in much the same way viewers of the "Planet of the Apes" series found the description of Ape religion.
    Communion, is among other things a reminder that we are called to take the focus off of ourselves and to do as God commanded, by loving Him and our neighbours. It simply replaces the barbaric with something that is in no way barbaric.
    iceage writes:
    Christ's message was not necessarily about peace...
    Matthew 34 writes:
    Do not think that I came to bring peace on the earth; I did not come to bring peace, but a sword.
    Actually it's Matthew 10:34. This is a reference back to Micah and refers to the fact that he knows his message will be divisive.
    Jesus was a Jew, living in Israel while it was being occupied by the Romans. First century Jews were anticipating a Messiah who would lead them in battle and defeat the Romans. Jesus came to establish a spiritual kingdom and wasn't concerned about the occupation. He even befriended Jews who collected taxes for the Romans.

    Everybody is entitled to my opinion.

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 56 by iceage, posted 04-30-2007 3:00 PM iceage has not replied

      
    GDR
    Member
    Posts: 6202
    From: Sidney, BC, Canada
    Joined: 05-22-2005
    Member Rating: 1.9


    Message 75 of 331 (398490)
    05-01-2007 12:57 AM
    Reply to: Message 1 by Phat
    04-26-2007 10:08 AM


    Phat writes:
    In this topic I want to address evangelicals on the board. I am not sure who you all are, but I know some of you. In this topic, I want to be able to speak the way that people speak to each other at church...encouraging, using scripture, and generally going with the theological beliefs of the Pentecostal/Baptist/Assemblies Of God, Non-Denominational sub-culture. (If you know what I mean)
    I've read your posts on this thread Phat and it seems to me that you have a good idea of what it is that you believe but you aren't sure just how you are to read scripture. A lot of us are in that position.
    Neither of us it seems are literalists and so when we read the Bible, particularly the OT we are required to exercise whatever wisdom we have and sort out what it is saying to us.
    Less tha a year ago I found someone who's writing was immensely helpful to me in this area. I am constantly reading and re-reading his material now. His name is NT (Tom) Wright and he is currently the Anglican Bishop of Durham. Here is what wiki says about him.
    N. T. Wright - Wikipedia
    Here is a web page with much of his material
    http://www.ntwrightpage.com/
    The best book of his to start with is called "Simply Christian". Here is the review on Amazon.
    Simply Christian
    I hope this is helpful.

    Everybody is entitled to my opinion.

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 1 by Phat, posted 04-26-2007 10:08 AM Phat has seen this message but not replied

      
    GDR
    Member
    Posts: 6202
    From: Sidney, BC, Canada
    Joined: 05-22-2005
    Member Rating: 1.9


    Message 83 of 331 (398554)
    05-01-2007 11:27 AM
    Reply to: Message 81 by Phat
    05-01-2007 11:03 AM


    Re: TOPIC SYNOPSIS I
    Phat writes:
    Not at all. I am only saying that unlike human children, I believe that God does not want us to be independent.
    I have to disagree with that Phat. I contend that God does want us to be independent. When I accepted the Christian faith I felt far more independent than I had previously.
    My children are all independent adults but I don't care any less for them and I still care very much that they make the right choices. God never takes away our free will. If I get a phone call from my kids asking for advice, (it actually happens, go figure), I don't tell them to get lost but I do what I can. They can take what advice I give or do something completely the opposite. It is their choice. Isn't that how you experience God. We have another dimension to our choices that non-believers don't have.

    Everybody is entitled to my opinion.

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 81 by Phat, posted 05-01-2007 11:03 AM Phat has seen this message but not replied

      
    GDR
    Member
    Posts: 6202
    From: Sidney, BC, Canada
    Joined: 05-22-2005
    Member Rating: 1.9


    Message 92 of 331 (398579)
    05-01-2007 2:53 PM
    Reply to: Message 89 by jar
    05-01-2007 1:47 PM


    Re: Hostility and judgementalism
    Jar writes:
    quote:
    So your first source is at best being willfully ignorant, but more likely intentionally dishonest.
    NJ writes
    quote:
    I'm not sure why you are being so hostile with Phat seeing that he is simply sharing his beliefs on the matter. He's not saying anything that should illicit such a response from you.
    Jar replies
    quote:
    That is yet another characteristic of the Christian Cult of Ignorance. They see anyone that actually asks questions about their beliefs as hostile.
    It is starting to be a bit much jar. Phat, as NJ says, shares his belief and you accuse him of "willfully ignorant, but more likely intentionally dishonest". Intentionally dishonesty translates into lying.
    NJ calls you on it and you say accuse Phat of being part of the Christian Culture if Ignorance and of being hostile to anyone who disagrees. There is only one person in this discussion who's being hostile and it ain't Phat and it ain't NJ.
    Labelling and name calling doesn't make a very effective argument, and I haven't read the guidelines lately, but isn’t accusing people of lying against the rules of this forum.

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 89 by jar, posted 05-01-2007 1:47 PM jar has replied

    Replies to this message:
     Message 94 by jar, posted 05-01-2007 3:19 PM GDR has not replied

      
    GDR
    Member
    Posts: 6202
    From: Sidney, BC, Canada
    Joined: 05-22-2005
    Member Rating: 1.9


    Message 103 of 331 (398620)
    05-01-2007 7:27 PM
    Reply to: Message 97 by iceage
    05-01-2007 5:10 PM


    Re: Harmony of "Scripture"
    iceage writes:
    Key concepts evolve without much notice by those who claim the harmony of the scriptures.
    I would agree actually that scripture did evolve. It is the ongoing story of God and His creation. The Hebrew stories or mythologies stand out in stark contrast to the Egyptian, Greek and Roman mythologies that co-existed. Whereas the other mythologies told of gods in incestuous and murderous relationships the Hebrew stories told of a God who created and then gave mankind a moral code. The OT gave us the ten commandments as well as the commandment to love your neighbour as yourself.
    Why does this one mythology stand out so starkly against the mythologies of their more advanced neighbours of that era. It is my opinion that the reason is because the Hebrew mythologies were actually God inspired. Does this mean that the OT scriptures should be read as a completely accurate historical account? I would say no, but that we can learn a great deal about God and what it is that he wants us to learn.
    In the NT Jesus comes (as the actual Word of God), and fulfils the OT. He even went further than the OT when He told us to love our enemies. Jesus was a first century Jew whose land was occupied by the Romans. The majority of Jews were looking for a Messiah who would defeat Roman and restore the temple to its former glory. Jesus however said that wasn't the way to go and showed them another way. Matthew was a Jew who functioned as a tax collector for the Romans. He wasn't on anyone's list for Happy Hanukkah cards. Jesus loved him and made a disciple out of him.
    I believe that the Bible is to be read with wisdom. It is also to be read within the context of the time in which it was written. In the Gospels it is imperative to remember that Jesus was talking to first century Jews. It was after the resurrection that He told his disciples to take that message and spread it to the rest of the world. I humbly suggest that those that believe the Bible is to be read strictly literally are short-changing themselves because I believe that the Bible is richer than that, but I also suggest that those who reject the Bible altogether are missing out even more.

    Everybody is entitled to my opinion.

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 97 by iceage, posted 05-01-2007 5:10 PM iceage has not replied

      
    GDR
    Member
    Posts: 6202
    From: Sidney, BC, Canada
    Joined: 05-22-2005
    Member Rating: 1.9


    Message 130 of 331 (398794)
    05-02-2007 3:58 PM
    Reply to: Message 129 by iceage
    05-02-2007 2:41 PM


    Re: Ignorance presupposes perfect knowledge
    iceage writes:
    First I ask why would God require worship or oblation? Really. One of the more detestable aspects of human rulers, leaders and celebrities is the craving and need for worship and oblation.
    I contend that the primary message of Christianity is that we are to move from love of self to love of God, (as represented by things like love, justice and truth), and of love of our neighbour, (as represented by everyone else).
    I agree that God has no need of our worship other than it is a means given to us, that with the aid of the Holy Spirit will help us take the focus off of ourselves and hopefully help put that focus where it belongs.
    I think that we are called to worship the Lord in similar way that a young child worships a loving parent.

    Everybody is entitled to my opinion.

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 129 by iceage, posted 05-02-2007 2:41 PM iceage has not replied

      
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