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Member (Idle past 97 days) Posts: 3645 From: Indianapolis, IN Joined: |
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Author | Topic: When Will The End-Times Be And How Will We Know? | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
ringo Member (Idle past 642 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes:
Mind? I wouldn't even notice. My pension is deposited automatically. My rent is withdrawn automatically. I pay for groceries and whatever else I need with Interac. The only thing I use cash for is laundry and panhandlers.
Maybe you wouldn't mind at all if currency became digital... Phat writes:
You're the only one who seems to be obsessed with being "forced" to pay. You're already forced to pay taxes, aren't you?
... and everyone (rich and poor) was forced to pay their fair share for the common good. Phat writes:
They could still hoard the things with real value, like food. Nobody could hoard anything then."I call that bold talk for a one-eyed fat man!" -- Lucky Ned Pepper
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DrJones* Member Posts: 2327 From: Edmonton, Alberta, Canada Joined: Member Rating: 10.0 |
The only thing I use cash for is laundry and panhandlers.
yeah since the pandemic started i only use cash to pay my barber
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ringo Member (Idle past 642 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
candle2 writes:
Well, Paul commanded the Thessalonians to prove everything. Ringo, you call believing in God a fantasy. Yet, Godcommands those who truly seek Him to prove everything. But remember, the commands of a fantasy are also fantasy.
candle2 writes:
As James told the twelve tribes.
Blind faith is worthless. candle2 writes:
If they have not been fulfilled, you can not count them as being fulfilled.
The Bible contains many prophecies; some havealready been fulfilled, others will soon be fulfilled. candle2 writes:
You don't "know" any such thing. A few decades ago, Hal Lindsey popularized some nonsense about the "beast" of Revelation 13 being the EU. That prediction failed - and now you are predicting that it will unfail. We also know that the EU will slim downto just 10 nations (married in a sense to a powerful universal church). A little over two centuries ago, prophecyy nuts "knew" that Napoleon was the AntiChrist. In the 1930s-40s, they "knew" that Hitler was the AntiChrist. Then they "knew" that Stalin was the AntiChrist. Then the Soviet Union split the offices of General Secretary of the Communist Party and Premier between Brezhnev and Kosigin and spoiled any further predictions of a single Soviet AntiChrist. The predictions have been consistently wrong. They're nothing but an attempt to twist the Bible into confirming your wishful thinking about the modern world."I call that bold talk for a one-eyed fat man!" -- Lucky Ned Pepper
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dwise1 Member Posts: 6067 Joined: Member Rating: 7.0 |
So then still completely incapable of answer a simple question like "what do you think evolution is and how do you think it works", you continue to try in vain to baffle us with pure bullshit. So sadly typical.
The Bible contains many prophecies; some have already been fulfilled, others will soon be fulfilled. Yep, the Texas sharpshooter fallacy yet again:
quote So decades and even a over a century after the alleged facts, early Christians busy creating the mythos of their new god decide to make him fulfill Old Testament "prophesies" by retconning his story accordingly. And of course since many/most of them weren't Jewish, they didn't even understand most of those "prophesies" ("Christians don't know how to read the Bible." -- Jewish character in Mein Bester Feind). Just like that Texas sharpshooter, they created the targets after the fact in order to make it look like they had hit the mark. There are several criteria for an actual successful prediction, none of which are met by such Christian claims of "fulfilled prophesy." Yet again you need to SHOW US that those claims are legitimate and not just simply more of your standard BS.
A mathematician friend at Murray State (he teaches Probabilities and Statistics) says that the probability of just eight prophecies being fulfilled is 10 followed By 17 zeroes. That's not how probability works. Probability ranges from zero (impossible) to one (dead certainty), inclusive. Probability can never be greater than one, let alone your "1017". So does this mean that you were unable to understand what your "friend" was telling you -- why does this sound like yet another urban legend? -- or that he doesn't know what he is talking about despite your story that he teaches this stuff on the university level? ABE:And out of curiosity, even though you are too clueless to be able to understand the question let alone try to answer it, how did your friend determine the probability of a single prophesy being fulfilled? I mean how precisely did he arrive at that single probability? What assumptions with associated numbers did he studiously use? I very strongly suspect that he just pulled a number out of his ass, like something around 1/133 (ie, P = 0.0075) which raised to the 8th power would give us: P(8 independent prophecies) = P8 = 0.00000000000000001 (AKA 10(-17), which is your 1/1017). IOW, his "calculated probability of a single fulfilled prophesy" is nothing be a SWAG, some wild ass guess that he pulled out of his ass! And since you constantly consume apologist bullshit, the terroir of his claim tasted so familiar that you just gobbled it up. And, of course yet again, you will not answer any of our questions but rather simply spew even more BS nonsense. So sadly typical.Edited by dwise1, : ABE
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AnswersInGenitals Member (Idle past 381 days) Posts: 673 Joined:
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In a 1947 cartoon Bugs Bunny predicts that Porky Pig's shotgun will backfire, singeing PP's hair. In 1949 cartoon, Porky Pig's shotgun backfires, singeing PP's hair. Prophecy fulfilled! Warner Bros. studio's inerrancy proved! (And now we know that Elmer Fudd is the true AntiChrist!)
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candle2 Member (Idle past 104 days) Posts: 892 Joined: |
Dwise, the professor at Murray State based his
calculation on the eight predictions being correct. To correctly predict these eight distinct events inone's life, and to do so hundreds of years in advance, is so difficult that the chances of being correct on all eight account is 10 to the 17th power. There is no mistake that the NT records the fulfillmentof these prophecies. You might not believe that these prophecies werefulfilled, or that they were even made. But, what you believe has nothing to do with the probability of them being fulfilled. Most people, including Christians, believe that allIsraelites are Jews. And many have lost faith in prophecies about Israel because they know this small country in the Middle East cannot fulfill all the prophecies about it. Understand this: all Jews are Israelites, but mostIsraelites are not Jews. Jews are descendants of Judah. Although thetribe of Benjamin was later incorporated. The Jews was promised that the scepter would notdepart from them. Joseph's two sons Ephraim and Manasseh received the birthright blessings as well as the name Israel. The last days prophecies for all tribes is in Genesis49 and Deuteronomy 33. The first place in the Bible where the Word Jew isused is in 2Kings 16:5-7. The Jews are in a war against both Syria and Israel. The 10 tribes of the Northern Kingdom of Israel wereconquered by the Assyrians in 718 BC. The Southern of Judah was conquered by Babylon in 586 BC. A careful study of history shows that the Germans(Deutchlanders) are present day Assyria. As far as evolution goes, I was only getting assumptionsfrom people who insisted it was a fact. I was debating with people who considered worms andwarthogs as distant family. How can they even trust their minds/thoughts, whichare nothing more than mutations.
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Tanypteryx Member Posts: 4597 From: Oregon, USA Joined: Member Rating: 9.4 |
Fictional bullshit!
Stop Tzar Vladimir the Condemned! What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python One important characteristic of a theory is that is has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --percy The reason that we have the scientific method is because common sense isn't reliable. -- Taq
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dwise1 Member Posts: 6067 Joined: Member Rating: 7.0 |
Dwise, the professor at Murray State based his calculation on the eight predictions being correct. Complete and utter blithering nonsense!
His objective was to calculate the probability of eight predictions being fulfilled. That objective depended on determining the probability of a single prediction being fulfilled. In order to make that determination, he had to have based his MATH on SOMETHING! According to you, he didn't even base it on jack-shit! You fucking idiot! Are you really such an idiot that you cannot understand a very simple mathematical concept?
Calculating the probability of an event happening requires the creation of a mathematical model of that event! Are you really such a complete idiot that you cannot understand that very simple fact? What is the probability that you will either fail to understand or willfully refuse to understand any of this? Very rapidly approaching 100%, dead certainty. But I'm going to explain it anyway because others reading this might learn something, even though you work so hard to prevent yourself from learning anything.
IOW, I know full well that I am yet again casting pearls before a swine. Games of chance are events that are fairly easy to model because they are well defined; eg:
Yet another example of the need for a proper math model is my MONKEY program which I created circa 1990 from my software specification derived from Richard Dawkins' WEASEL in Chapter 3, "Accumulating Small Changes", of The Blind Watchmaker -- on a site which collected WEASEL programs, mine was deemed most true to the original. Selecting the right math model was the entire idea behind WEASEL, because creationists are infamous for always using bogus probability models. Their single-step selection has absolutely nothing to do with reality, with how life works, and hence with how evolution works! Plus the creationist "model" is abysmally bad. The proper math model to model how life works is cumulative selection which is based on how life works -- duh? And in WEASEL's (and MONKEY's) task it would take creationism's single-step selection quadrillions of years for a hyper-supercomputer to gain just a one-in-a-million chance of succeeding, evolution's cumulative selection accomplishes in seconds, every time without fail.
That is why the correct math model is of the utmost importance in any calculation of probabilities. BTW, don't rely on Dembski and Royal Truman's bullshit lies about WEASEL. The objective in this evolution is to demonstrate that in order to calculate the probability of an event one must develop a mathematical model of that event! Hopefully a proper one! So the question to you was what your "math expert's" math model was for a single fulfilled Bible prophecy. Why a math model? Because he intended to use it to perform math with! No math model, no math! Duh? So then JUST WHAT THE HELL DID HE BASE HIS PROBABILITY CALCULATIONS ON? To correctly predict these eight distinct events in one's life, and to do so hundreds of years in advance, is so difficult that the chances of being correct on all eight account is 10 to the 17th power. wickless, you fucking idiot! Or should that be uttely ignorant swine since I'm about to cast some more pearls before you? A probability of 1017? Even after I had already told you that a probability can be no greater than ONE? You're like Trump and his MAGAts: we think that they couldn't possibly sink any lower and yet they eagerly dig away! As you yourself keep doing. Again, it is impossible for a probability to be greater than one. 1017 is extremely greater than one, like by a factor of 1017. Duh???? If that professor is really saying that, then having him teach probability at a university is a criminal act that must be stopped immediately! Rather, I would assume that you are just incapable to understanding what he had told you. Or else you are deliberately lying yet again! We already know all too well that you're a fucking idiot. We would rather not realize the same of him.
There is no mistake that the NT records the fulfillment of these prophecies. Just as there is no mistake that other religions also record the fulfillment of their prophecies. What makes your false claims worth more than theirs? Anybody could claim fulfilled prophecy, so how is anybody to tell when it's true? Those claims would need to be tested. But how? You would need to establish some kind of reliable criteria for verifying such claims. Have you done that, applied reliable criteria for verifying those "fulfilled prophecies"? No, I didn't think so. But I have seen several treatments of such testing. Your claims of fulfilled prophecy are all bullshit. So here's the most likely scenario I'm seeing:
You're starting a new religion. You choose to base it on stories you've heard about some dude who lived over half a century ago. Or even about some urban legend type dude who maybe didn't even exist ... who cares? So you want to claim a legendary title for this dude, you know? Old stories and even prophecies about where he would come from and what he would do and all that stuff. So as you're writing down your account of him, you make sure to include all the details from the prophecies, because you yourself believe that this is that dude! And since he's that dude then all this stuff about him must have happened! And millennia later, people read your made-up bullshit and get fooled into thinking that it's true. Here are commonly known historical reconstructions, though most don't know them as such. I seem to recall it was Washington Irving (author of "The Headless Horseman of Sleepy Hallow who in the early 1800's had written stories about our Founding Fathers and early presidents. George Washington's "I cannot tell a lie, ... I chopped down that cherry tree.", etc. Then later stories of Abraham Lincoln's extraordinary feats of honesty, etc. Any reliable criteria for testing claims of fulfilled prophecy must be able to detect and deal with that kind of falsifying historical reconstruction. The exact kind that early Christian writings are rife for. So what happens when actually reliable criteria are used to test your claims of fulfilled prophecy? They do not fare well. Your "fulfilled prophecies" are not an asset, but rather yet another problem that you need to solve. Please attend to them appropriately. For a change.
As far as evolution goes, I was only getting assumptions from people who insisted it was a fact. No, you fucking lying sack of liquid crap!
You were posted an endless stream of lies about evolution and we kept trying in vain (solely because of your fucking intransigence) to get you to tell us just what the fuck you're talking about! A vital part of which was what your particular misunderstanding of evolution is. Unless we know what total bullshit you base your "conclusions" about evolution is, we have no hope of ever understanding you, let alone try to correct you. You know full well what our questions are. Just answer the fucking questions!​ I was debating with people who considered worms and warthogs as distant family. So then you are not of Animalia? WHAT KIND OF ENTITY ARE YOU? Something cybernetic (in which case your software is really screwed up)? Not primate? Not mammal? Not amniote? Not tetrapod? Not chordate (vertebrate)? Not animalia? Just what the fuck are you? if none of those? Or do you just have your head wedged firmly up your ass ... yet again?Edited by dwise1, : slight correction of the omission of a number
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Dredge Member Posts: 2855 From: Australia Joined: |
The re-birth of Israel (1948) doesn't mark the end of the end-times.
Edited by Dredge, .
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Dredge Member Posts: 2855 From: Australia Joined: |
AZPaul3 writes:
You've misinterpreted what I said. Israel must be existence as a nation before the Second Coming can occur. He says the end times comes with the rebirth of Israel.Edited by Dredge, . Edited by Dredge, . Edited by Dredge, .
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dwise1 Member Posts: 6067 Joined: Member Rating: 7.0 |
As already pointed out, what you say of what that math professor had claimed is completely stupid nonsense based on extreme ignorance of basic mathematics. Are you the stupid ignoramus here or is it that other guy whom you claim to teach this subject professionally in a state university? I most sincerely hope that it is not him.
Besides the glaringly obvious ignorance that probability cannot be greater than 1.0 (AKA "dead certainty" ... and nothing could be more probable than that), there is also the question of what he based his determination of the probability of one prophecy being fulfilled. Somehow he seems to have arrived at a probability of about 1/133 which is 0.0075 (or 0.75%). But how? What did he base his math model on? Because without a math model you cannot determine a probability. No math model for one prophecy being fulfilled means no probability could have been determined. Duh??
ABE:I did offer an answer to how the professor had come up with that probability. Did he tell you? Of course, there is so very much more involved that just coming up with a math model. First and foremost is the need for proper criteria to determine whether a prophecy has in fact been fulfilled. Or even whether it's even actually a prophecy. In this video, Aron Ra discusses this problem giving many examples of false "fulfilled prophecies" that "true Christians" continue to claim despite their having been refuted a thousand times already (actually, this video is the first use of PRATT that I've seen outside of this forum):
These criteria have been discussed elsewhere and I'm no expert, but I do know at least this much:
That should be enough to get some meaningful discussion started.Edited by dwise1, : ABE
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AZPaul3 Member Posts: 8647 From: Phoenix Joined: Member Rating: 7.2 |
You've misinterpreted what I said. Israel must be existence as a nation before the Second Coming can occur. Ahh, so one sign in 2000 years. Slow process isn't it. You trying to make this fit just in line with climate change? You may have it right. It's going to be a while but, yes, the horsemen are brushing down their steeds preparing for war. Which one's first?Stop Tzar Vladimir the Condemned!
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ringo Member (Idle past 642 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Dredge writes:
Not according to Jesus:
Israel must be existence as a nation before the Second Coming can occur.quote "I call that bold talk for a one-eyed fat man!" -- Lucky Ned Pepper
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AZPaul3 Member Posts: 8647 From: Phoenix Joined: Member Rating: 7.2
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Visions of Apocalypse Now - Ride of the Valkyries.
Stop Tzar Vladimir the Condemned!
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nwr Member Posts: 6484 From: Geneva, Illinois Joined: Member Rating: 9.2 |
Yes. It seems to me that either the second coming already happened and nobody noticed, or it will never happen.
Fundamentalism - the anti-American, anti-Christian branch of American Christianity
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