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Author Topic:   When Will The End-Times Be And How Will We Know?
Phat
Member
Posts: 18388
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003


Message 706 of 794 (894718)
05-27-2022 11:25 AM
Reply to: Message 705 by Tangle
05-27-2022 3:43 AM


Prayer Is More Than Muttering
Tangle writes:
Whether we're actually capable of fully shrugging off the superstitious nonsense that's still holding back most of the world AND saving ourselves from the animal behaviors we inherit from our recent history as descended apes, is still in the balance.
One man's superstitious nonsense is another man's recipe for sanity.
For one thing, most who call themselves churchgoers and members of the club are not at the level where they see prayer as anything more than a group ritual.

"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
***
“…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox

“A God without wrath brought men without sin into a Kingdom without judgment through the ministrations of a Christ without a Cross.”
H. Richard Niebuhr, The Kingdom of God in America

“The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” — Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You
(1894).


This message is a reply to:
 Message 705 by Tangle, posted 05-27-2022 3:43 AM Tangle has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 707 by Tangle, posted 05-27-2022 11:46 AM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 9531
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 4.9


Message 707 of 794 (894721)
05-27-2022 11:46 AM
Reply to: Message 706 by Phat
05-27-2022 11:25 AM


Re: Prayer Is More Than Muttering
Phat writes:
One man's superstitious nonsense is another man's recipe for sanity.
Superstition is objectively nonsense - the fact that some dumb humans need to cling onto it for their sanity is sad but irrelevant.
For one thing, most who call themselves churchgoers and members of the club are not at the level where they see prayer as anything more than a group ritual.
Well they'd be right about that at least.

Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London. Olen Suomi Soy Barcelona. I am Ukraine.

"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 706 by Phat, posted 05-27-2022 11:25 AM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 494 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 708 of 794 (894731)
05-27-2022 1:17 PM
Reply to: Message 703 by Phat
05-27-2022 1:24 AM


Re: JarThink
Phat writes:
What scriptures have I misused recently?
ringo writes:
Genesis 2. You call the truth a lie and the lie truth.
​No. I call your (and) jars interpretation of the truth a lie.
It's not an interpretation. It's what the Bible says.
Phat writes:
God does not lie. (There would be no reason to do so)
Sure there would. A parent sometimes lies to his child to protect him.
Phat writes:
And there is no truth in the devil, according to scripture.
There is no devil in Genesis 2.
Phat writes:
Secular humanism is neither good nor evil.
And yet you never say anything good about it.
Phat writes:
It is simply mans attempt to ignore the "God concept" and figure life out on our own.
No. It's man's attempt to get things done without relying on fantasies.
Phat writes:
How is that working for us?
Pretty well.
Phat writes:
Besides....God wants Communion with humanity.
Here's a hint for Him: If you want to commune with me, don't threaten to fry me.
Phat writes:
He is not OK with us simply being indifferent due to "lack of evidence".
That's just a convenient lie. God wants what you want Him to want.
Phat writes:
And by the way, who told tou that unbelief is a default option?
You know it is.
You don't believe in Zeus. Why not? Because unbelief is the default option.
You don't believe in Quetzalcoatl. Why not? Because unbelief is the default option.
You don't believe in Rael. Why not? Because unbelief is the default option.
You don't believe in Thor. Why not? Because unbelief is the default option.
You don't believe in Brahman. Why not? Because unbelief is the default option.
Why do you pretend that belief is a wonderful thing when you have almost as much unbelief as I do?
quoting romans, Phat writes:
as it is written: “None is righteous, no, not one;
11 no one understands; no one seeks for God.
12 All have turned aside;
No one seeks for God. Not seeking God is the default.
Phat writes:
You and jar both mention Genesis 2. That view is very much a minority viewpoint.
Fallacy of appeal to popularity. The truth doesn't have to be popular.
Phat writes:
Yet you say it every darn time we interact.
If you had anything to back up your popular opinion, we could finish with it once and for all. But as long as you continue to repeat the lie, I will continue to expose it as a lie.

"I call that bold talk for a one-eyed fat man!"
-- Lucky Ned Pepper

This message is a reply to:
 Message 703 by Phat, posted 05-27-2022 1:24 AM Phat has seen this message but not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 719 by candle2, posted 05-30-2022 9:37 AM ringo has replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18388
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003


Message 709 of 794 (894763)
05-28-2022 3:21 PM
Reply to: Message 696 by nwr
05-24-2022 5:01 PM


Re: Steering Back Towaards The Topic
Attempting to go to a gold standard would be an attempt to set the value through common agreement. Somehow, you are blind to that.
No. The value of the dollar sets the price of Gold (for now) but the value (in dollars) of the Gold only reflects the worth of the dollar. In my opinion, humans attempted to use the dollar to replace Gold (as an international barometer) but in my opinion, will soon see that as futile.
I do not see any evidence supporting this.
So answer me this. If the purchasing power of the dollar dropped (as it always has in relative terms) less Gold would be required to back the central Banks in the event of a fiat currency collapse. Do you not see how Gold will always invisibly "back" fiat currencies even if decoupled from them.
Well maybe not always...but in the foreseeable future.

"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
***
“…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox

“A God without wrath brought men without sin into a Kingdom without judgment through the ministrations of a Christ without a Cross.”
H. Richard Niebuhr, The Kingdom of God in America

“The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” — Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You
(1894).


This message is a reply to:
 Message 696 by nwr, posted 05-24-2022 5:01 PM nwr has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 710 by nwr, posted 05-28-2022 3:57 PM Phat has replied

  
nwr
Member
Posts: 6419
From: Geneva, Illinois
Joined: 08-08-2005
Member Rating: 5.1


(3)
Message 710 of 794 (894768)
05-28-2022 3:57 PM
Reply to: Message 709 by Phat
05-28-2022 3:21 PM


Re: Steering Back Towaards The Topic
Do you not see how Gold will always invisibly "back" fiat currencies even if decoupled from them.
No, I don't see that at all.

Fundamentalism - the anti-American, anti-Christian branch of American Christianity

This message is a reply to:
 Message 709 by Phat, posted 05-28-2022 3:21 PM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 711 by jar, posted 05-28-2022 4:54 PM nwr has seen this message but not replied
 Message 712 by Phat, posted 05-29-2022 1:36 PM nwr has replied

  
jar
Member
Posts: 34055
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 5.1


(2)
Message 711 of 794 (894772)
05-28-2022 4:54 PM
Reply to: Message 710 by nwr
05-28-2022 3:57 PM


Re: Steering Back Towaards The Topic
For a long, long time it was not gold but salt.
For a long time it was not salt but incense.
For a long time it was not incense but tobacco.
For a short time it was tulips.

My Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 710 by nwr, posted 05-28-2022 3:57 PM nwr has seen this message but not replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18388
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003


Message 712 of 794 (894778)
05-29-2022 1:36 PM
Reply to: Message 710 by nwr
05-28-2022 3:57 PM


Maybe You Want To Share The Wealth
Maybe you wouldn't mind at all if currency became digital and everyone (rich and poor) was forced to pay their fair share for the common good. Nobody could hoard anything then.

"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
***
“…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox

“A God without wrath brought men without sin into a Kingdom without judgment through the ministrations of a Christ without a Cross.”
H. Richard Niebuhr, The Kingdom of God in America

“The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” — Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You
(1894).


This message is a reply to:
 Message 710 by nwr, posted 05-28-2022 3:57 PM nwr has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 713 by AZPaul3, posted 05-29-2022 2:26 PM Phat has replied
 Message 714 by nwr, posted 05-29-2022 3:07 PM Phat has not replied
 Message 721 by ringo, posted 05-30-2022 11:56 AM Phat has not replied

  
AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 8593
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 4.2


(1)
Message 713 of 794 (894780)
05-29-2022 2:26 PM
Reply to: Message 712 by Phat
05-29-2022 1:36 PM


Re: Maybe You Want To Share The Wealth
The vast wads of currency in this world are already digital.
If you're talking crypto then, well, that's as productive as NFTs. Foolish.
We do not have $100s of billions in actual bills. But many $100s of billions is wire transferred digitally every day.
Do you know how currency is created? It does not roll off a printing press. It is created by bank loans. Shocking. And that newly created currency is all digital.
Does this mean governments can get a hold of this stream to extract payments as it may want? Probably, but not easily given the elite's political control over the governments and the courts, and they haven't done so since digital took over. There is not much incentive to disrupt a system that works for elites and governments alike.
Now, if we get rid of the elites and their political puppets we can better equalize wealth over the world.
So digital currency, whether fiat or crypto, means nothing. What is important is the humanity behind the politics and, today this sucks.

Stop Tzar Vladimir the Condemned!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 712 by Phat, posted 05-29-2022 1:36 PM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 715 by Phat, posted 05-29-2022 3:08 PM AZPaul3 has replied

  
nwr
Member
Posts: 6419
From: Geneva, Illinois
Joined: 08-08-2005
Member Rating: 5.1


(1)
Message 714 of 794 (894781)
05-29-2022 3:07 PM
Reply to: Message 712 by Phat
05-29-2022 1:36 PM


Re: Maybe You Want To Share The Wealth
Maybe you wouldn't mind at all if currency became digital and everyone (rich and poor) was forced to pay their fair share for the common good. Nobody could hoard anything then.
As AZPaul3 said, currency is already digital. Perhaps you intended that as a reference to crypto-currency. I'm skeptical of crypto-currency.
It is not at all clear what you were really trying to ask. There will always be those who live by theft and fail to pay their fair share toward the common good. And there will always hoarders. That's just human nature. Christianity has not been able to repeal human nature, and humanism won't be able to do it either

Fundamentalism - the anti-American, anti-Christian branch of American Christianity

This message is a reply to:
 Message 712 by Phat, posted 05-29-2022 1:36 PM Phat has not replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18388
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003


Message 715 of 794 (894782)
05-29-2022 3:08 PM
Reply to: Message 713 by AZPaul3
05-29-2022 2:26 PM


Re: Maybe You Want To Share The Wealth
Quora writes:
World GDP, which is around $73 trillion[1], is just the income generated every year by all the economies of the world combined. However, the question asks about the distribution of wealth - and wealth and income are two different concepts.
Wealth is stock, while income is the flow adding to that stock. In simple terms, wealth is the total productive assets in the world reduced by the total liabilities of the world.
Now, the total assets in the world can be clubbed in two broad categories:
Assets like patents, buildings, machines, gold etc which you own with you or put to use to earn money
Assets like bonds, debentures etc which are monies lent out to others
What’s a cool but obvious thing about no. 2 kind of assets? These are the liabilities for someone else - your liability is my asset and they cancel each other out. So what’s left? Real assets as in no. 1 assets - gold mines, patents, anything which can generate income.
Now, true equality would mean equal ownership of these assets! But how do we measure the value of these assets? According to research done by Credit-Suisse, this number stands at ~$250 trillion today, which is distributed like this:
Therefore, assuming the population of the world to be around 7.4 billion, if all the wealth were to be distributed equally, each one of us would be worth $34,000.
You think that’s not too much huh? Nearly 75% of the world earns below that today.
Except not most of us here at EvC.

"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
***
“…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox

“A God without wrath brought men without sin into a Kingdom without judgment through the ministrations of a Christ without a Cross.”
H. Richard Niebuhr, The Kingdom of God in America

“The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” — Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You
(1894).


This message is a reply to:
 Message 713 by AZPaul3, posted 05-29-2022 2:26 PM AZPaul3 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 716 by AZPaul3, posted 05-29-2022 4:03 PM Phat has not replied
 Message 717 by jar, posted 05-29-2022 4:29 PM Phat has not replied
 Message 718 by AnswersInGenitals, posted 05-29-2022 6:25 PM Phat has not replied

  
AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 8593
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 4.2


Message 716 of 794 (894783)
05-29-2022 4:03 PM
Reply to: Message 715 by Phat
05-29-2022 3:08 PM


Re: Maybe You Want To Share The Wealth
What does your Quora quote mean? What do you think it means? How does this impact your currency fears?
And, if I may, a source to this. I would like to see their "which is distributed like this:" list.

Edited by AZPaul3, .


Stop Tzar Vladimir the Condemned!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 715 by Phat, posted 05-29-2022 3:08 PM Phat has not replied

  
jar
Member
Posts: 34055
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 5.1


Message 717 of 794 (894784)
05-29-2022 4:29 PM
Reply to: Message 715 by Phat
05-29-2022 3:08 PM


Re: Maybe You Want To Share The Wealth
Phat, once again you are simply showing that you are totally ignorant when it comes to almost every subject including money.
The Quora passage is simply utterly stupid and created to impress those who are unwilling or incapable of thinking.
Step back and explain why the Quora passage is simply utterly stupid and created to impress those who are unwilling or incapable of thinking.

My Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 715 by Phat, posted 05-29-2022 3:08 PM Phat has not replied

  
AnswersInGenitals
Member (Idle past 233 days)
Posts: 673
Joined: 07-20-2006


Message 718 of 794 (894786)
05-29-2022 6:25 PM
Reply to: Message 715 by Phat
05-29-2022 3:08 PM


Re: Maybe You Want To Share The Wealth
Phat, you need to correct/update your numbers. this wikipedia article, based on Credit Suisse (2021) data shows world total net wealth as $418 trillion(USD). If I weren't too lazy to figure out how to post images from that article, I would do so. And I'd also post images of an apple and an orange for your edification - after giving a careful explanation of the difference between earnings (income) and wealth you go on to compare the world wealth per person to income!
Most interesting in this article (to me) is that the US owns 30% of the world's wealth at $126 Trillion(USD) while Russia owns all of 0.73% at $3 Trillion(USD), and are ranked 20th. (China owns 18% with $75 Trillion and comes in 2nd after the US.) Many military experts will tell you that modern wars are not won, they are bought. If this is true, Russia would not stand a chance against the US if we were to get serious about any conflict.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 715 by Phat, posted 05-29-2022 3:08 PM Phat has not replied

  
candle2
Member
Posts: 875
Joined: 12-31-2018


Message 719 of 794 (894818)
05-30-2022 9:37 AM
Reply to: Message 708 by ringo
05-27-2022 1:17 PM


Re: JarThink
Ringo, you call believing in God a fantasy. Yet, God
commands those who truly seek Him to prove
everything.
Blind faith is worthless.
The Bible contains many prophecies; some have
already been fulfilled, others will soon be fulfilled.
There are more than 50 specific OT prophecies
about Jesus that have been fulfilled in the NT.
Some Biblical scholars insist that the actual
number is better than 300.
For the sake of brevity, I will mention just eight.
A mathematician friend at Murray State (he teaches
Probabilities and Statistics) says that the probability
of just eight prophecies being fulfilled is 10 followed
By 17 zeroes.
I will cite the OT prophecy, followed by NT fulfillment.
Isaiah 7:14 born of a virgin Luke 1:35.
Micah 5:2 born in Bethlehem Matthew 2:4-6.
Psalms 78:1-2 teach in parables Matthew 13:34-35.
Isaiah 9:1-7 begins ministry in Galilee Matthew 4:12-17.
Isaiah 40:3-4 Christ preceeded by forerunner (John
the Baptist). John 1:23.
Isaiah 53:3 despised and rejected Luke 4:28-29.
Zechariah 11:12-13 betrayed for 30 pieces of silver
Matthew 27:6-10.
Psalms 22:6 hands and feet pierced John 19:36-37.
My church was aware from 1951 that East and West
Germany would reunite. I realized this in the early 1980's.
Without a clear understanding of prophecy, I never
would have thought that the Soviet Union would have
freed East Germany.
We knew beyond a doubt that Britain would withdraw
from the EU. We also know that the EU will slim down
to just 10 nations (married in a sense to a powerful
universal church).
To know what is in store for certain nations today, it
is paramount that we identify who they were in
Biblical times.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 708 by ringo, posted 05-27-2022 1:17 PM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 720 by PaulK, posted 05-30-2022 10:44 AM candle2 has not replied
 Message 723 by ringo, posted 05-30-2022 12:31 PM candle2 has seen this message but not replied
 Message 724 by dwise1, posted 05-30-2022 12:48 PM candle2 has replied
 Message 725 by AnswersInGenitals, posted 05-30-2022 4:43 PM candle2 has not replied

  
PaulK
Member
Posts: 17838
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 4.1


(1)
Message 720 of 794 (894821)
05-30-2022 10:44 AM
Reply to: Message 719 by candle2
05-30-2022 9:37 AM


Re: JarThink
quote
The Bible contains many prophecies; some have
already been fulfilled, others will soon be fulfilled.
Some have certainly failed. For instance the end times did not arrive on the schedule of Daniel 8.
quote
There are more than 50 specific OT prophecies
about Jesus that have been fulfilled in the NT.
Some Biblical scholars insist that the actual
number is better than 300.
That sort of so-called “Biblical scholar” often says things that aren’t true.
quote
For the sake of brevity, I will mention just eight.
Let’s see how far you can go before getting one wrong.
quote
Isaiah 7:14 born of a virgin Luke 1:35.
Oh dear, the first one is an obvious error. The child born in Isaiah 7 is not the main prophecy but a sign that the main prophecy will shortly be fulfilled. That prophecy being that the attacks from Aram and Israel will soon be brought to an end by the Assyrians.
Unless Jesus was born in the reign of Ahaz, he has nothing to do with this prophecy.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 719 by candle2, posted 05-30-2022 9:37 AM candle2 has not replied

  
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