Understanding through Discussion


Welcome! You are not logged in. [ Login ]
EvC Forum active members: 68 (9078 total)
114 online now:
AZPaul3, Tangle (2 members, 112 visitors)
Newest Member: harveyspecter
Post Volume: Total: 894,978 Year: 6,090/6,534 Month: 283/650 Week: 53/278 Day: 1/52 Hour: 0/0


Thread  Details

Email This Thread
Newer Topic | Older Topic
  
Author Topic:   When Will The End-Times Be And How Will We Know?
jar
Member
Posts: 33957
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 2.2


Message 691 of 763 (894630)
05-24-2022 2:54 PM
Reply to: Message 690 by Phat
05-24-2022 2:29 PM


Re: Steering Back Towaards The Topic
Phat, learn the basics. It's obvious that you still have no idea what 'Fiat Money' is or even what money is.

My Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 690 by Phat, posted 05-24-2022 2:29 PM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 693 by Phat, posted 05-24-2022 3:15 PM jar has replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 16055
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003


Message 692 of 763 (894631)
05-24-2022 3:07 PM
Reply to: Message 184 by ringo
05-25-2020 12:25 PM


Re: JarThink
ringo writes:
I have said many times that I will accept any evidence that backs up your beliefs.
For the umpteenth time, there is no evidence possible for either God or prophecies until they have been fulfilled. Your problem initially was in ditching the entire concept of belief. I suspect you did it partially because you saw no evidence that believers were willing to go all the way. Jar and his church at the time once built a house for a Pastor who later sold it and left the flock hanging, so I sense that he may feel similar to you on the matter of belief being (empty).
ringo writes:
All religion is a watered-down version of the truth - if there is any truth in them at all.
Do you see truth being manifested through secular humanism? I don't.
Phat writes:
You would claim that the truth is found in evidence. I would challenge that and say that the truth is only found in humans and their inner motives and desires.
ringo writes:
What a load of rubbish.
See what I mean?
ringo writes:
You don't do ANYTHING to support apologetic precepts. You use apologetic precepts to deny the Bible.
I'll call you out on this one. What scriptures have I misused recently?
Phat writes:
... so you can't say anything about me not doing what Jesus says to do either.
ringo writes:
I haven't said any such thing. I've said that you flat-out DENY what He said. You SCOFF at what He said.
Nonsense. I have only questioned the idea that a true Christian (and only them) should give up all that they have. Nobody has that much faith these days, early Apostles and widows with two mites notwithstanding.
ringo writes:
Lack of truth is the default. Nothing is true until shown to be true.
I think that you will see it soon enough. Likely, however, you guys will again blame the CCoWI for bringing it all about. As if you are not equally responsible.
ringo writes:
I'm simply pointing out that YOUR position has no substance.
ONLY because I won't give *It All* up! I'm not greedy, ya know. I could be more generous but I'm an old man trying to save enough to retire. I would NOT wish to be homeless nor would I want to be sick with no health care.
Am I so different from you?
ringo writes:
There are many purposes for lies, some good, some bad, but that has nothing to do with people "being" the truth.
Jesus is the one who initially said it.
John 14:6 ESV writes:
Jesus said to him, “I am the way, and the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.
ringo writes:
Why don't you just SAY he's honest?
OK. We will go with your definition of who Jesus was and is.
ringo writes:
Why else would you refuse to question your conclusions except that you think you're infallible?
Again, I believe that He was and Is infallible. (Not Francis...Jesus!)
ringo writes:
Science has all kinds of ability to measure anything you can think of. If you come up with some method of measuring the supernatural, science will be glad to give it a try.
Both you and I know there is no way to measure the supernatural...yet.
ringo writes:
Even IF your God was infallible, you would also have to believe that you could infallibly understand Him.
Actually you have a point. I would believe that if God wanted to be understood, He would impress that truth on those who had ears to hear.
ringo writes:
You are wilfully in denial but that doesn't mean all of us are.
True. Some of us are unknowingly and/or consciously in denial. Pot meet Kettle.
ringo writes:
The question is WHY would you ignore the message? Doesn't it make more sense to evaluate the message?
I have. I evaluated the logic and reasonableness of giving every materialistic thing up and rejected it because I did not have the faith of a Raven.
What's your excuse?

"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
***
“…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox

“A God without wrath brought men without sin into a Kingdom without judgment through the ministrations of a Christ without a Cross.”
H. Richard Niebuhr, The Kingdom of God in America

“The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” — Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You
(1894).


This message is a reply to:
 Message 184 by ringo, posted 05-25-2020 12:25 PM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 699 by ringo, posted 05-25-2022 12:52 PM Phat has replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 16055
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003


Message 693 of 763 (894632)
05-24-2022 3:15 PM
Reply to: Message 691 by jar
05-24-2022 2:54 PM


Re: Steering Back Towaards The Topic
The dollar became a coequal substitute for Gold in 1944 due to Bretton Woods and the aberration. Nixon unlinked it in 1970 to "defend the dollar against the speculators". The dollar went up and Gold, after also going up, became suppressed (in my opinion to defend the dollar and discourage metals speculation.) What the Fed and the world seem to need to learn again is that humans cannot simply will the value of money through common agreement.
In today's world of banking, it is still the gold that directly or indirectly sets the bar for the value of the dollar...not the other way around. You will see this soon enough.

"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
***
“…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox

“A God without wrath brought men without sin into a Kingdom without judgment through the ministrations of a Christ without a Cross.”
H. Richard Niebuhr, The Kingdom of God in America

“The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” — Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You
(1894).


This message is a reply to:
 Message 691 by jar, posted 05-24-2022 2:54 PM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 695 by jar, posted 05-24-2022 4:40 PM Phat has not replied
 Message 696 by nwr, posted 05-24-2022 5:01 PM Phat has replied
 Message 697 by AZPaul3, posted 05-24-2022 6:04 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 6828
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 3.3


(2)
Message 694 of 763 (894636)
05-24-2022 4:10 PM
Reply to: Message 690 by Phat
05-24-2022 2:29 PM


Re: Steering Back Towaards The Topic
I mentioned Biden's recent Taiwan Gaffe and heard no response from any Democrats. Had Trump said something stupid like that the forum would be full of responses.
Ol' Joe's statements were not anything stupid. There was no gaffe.

Stop Tzar Vladimir the Condemned!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 690 by Phat, posted 05-24-2022 2:29 PM Phat has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 698 by Theodoric, posted 05-25-2022 12:28 PM AZPaul3 has not replied

  
jar
Member
Posts: 33957
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 2.2


Message 695 of 763 (894637)
05-24-2022 4:40 PM
Reply to: Message 693 by Phat
05-24-2022 3:15 PM


Re: Steering Back Towaards The Topic
Phat writes:
What the Fed and the world seem to need to learn again is that humans cannot simply will the value of money through common agreement.

In today's world of banking, it is still the gold that directly or indirectly sets the bar for the value of the dollar...not the other way around. You will see this soon enough.
And it's really stupid statements like that that we all hear from you constantly.
There is zero evidence that gold directly or indirectly sets the bar for the value of the dollar any more or less than any other commodity.
And the ONLY thing that determines the value of money is common agreement as you have been shown numerous times.
If you honestly actually could read what you yourself included in your post you would see examples of just that, of human agreement setting the value of money.
But you refuse to learn how to read.

My Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 693 by Phat, posted 05-24-2022 3:15 PM Phat has not replied

  
nwr
Member
Posts: 6036
From: Geneva, Illinois
Joined: 08-08-2005
Member Rating: 3.8


Message 696 of 763 (894638)
05-24-2022 5:01 PM
Reply to: Message 693 by Phat
05-24-2022 3:15 PM


Re: Steering Back Towaards The Topic
What the Fed and the world seem to need to learn again is that humans cannot simply will the value of money through common agreement.
I agree that there are uncertainties in attempting to set the value of money through common agreement.
Attempting to go to a gold standard would be an attempt to set the value through common agreement. Somehow, you are blind to that.
In today's world of banking, it is still the gold that directly or indirectly sets the bar for the value of the dollar...not the other way around.
I do not see any evidence supporting this.

Fundamentalism - the anti-American, anti-Christian branch of American Christianity

This message is a reply to:
 Message 693 by Phat, posted 05-24-2022 3:15 PM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 709 by Phat, posted 05-28-2022 3:21 PM nwr has replied

  
AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 6828
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 3.3


Message 697 of 763 (894639)
05-24-2022 6:04 PM
Reply to: Message 693 by Phat
05-24-2022 3:15 PM


Re: Steering Back Towaards The Topic
What the Fed and the world seem to need to learn again is that humans cannot simply will the value of money through common agreement.
Ehh, Phat? That's exactly the way it works. That common agreement is made on the trading floor of the exchanges on a second by second basis.
Regardless.
One probable future we can see from here is that you may be right. Just too short in the timeline.
The next three generations (remainder of the century) may not see any great social collapse. So say I the expert. That’s not scheduled to happen until the food riots envelope the world the generations later. Currency will be relegated to a remnant elite while the war lords and the serfs go back to bartering their lives with wheat, oil and gold. As our species goes through the grinder of time toward extinction we will pass through that stage of relations where gold, once again, becomes the world’s standard store of value.
So hold on to that gold, Phat. Someday it really may be worth something.

Stop Tzar Vladimir the Condemned!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 693 by Phat, posted 05-24-2022 3:15 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 7403
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 2.6


(1)
Message 698 of 763 (894660)
05-25-2022 12:28 PM
Reply to: Message 694 by AZPaul3
05-24-2022 4:10 PM


Re: Steering Back Towaards The Topic
I am quite sure he said exactly what he wanted to say and his staff knew what he would say and was ready with a seeming walk back. The words cannot be unsaid. China got the exact message he wanted to send. Joe can play multidimensional chess. Right-wingers only know how to knock shit down.

What can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence. -Christopher Hitchens

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 694 by AZPaul3, posted 05-24-2022 4:10 PM AZPaul3 has not replied

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 19720
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.8


Message 699 of 763 (894664)
05-25-2022 12:52 PM
Reply to: Message 692 by Phat
05-24-2022 3:07 PM


Re: JarThink
Phat writes:
Your problem initially was in ditching the entire concept of belief.
I have not ditched the concept of belief; I have put it where it belongs - in last place. If there is no evidence, then and only then are you allowed to fall back on belief. Evidence ALWAYS trumps belief.
Phat writes:
I suspect you did it partially because you saw no evidence that believers were willing to go all the way.
That's one reaon why I don't believe YOUR faith is real.
Phat writes:
Do you see truth being manifested through secular humanism?
Of course. We're a social species. Helping each other improves our chances of survival.
Phat writes:
I don't.
Because those goddamn lying apologists have convinced you that "secular humanist" is a dirty word.
Phat writes:
You would claim that the truth is found in evidence. I would challenge that and say that the truth is only found in humans and their inner motives and desires.
ringo writes:
What a load of rubbish.
See what I mean?
No. Why don't you just say what you mean?
Phat writes:
I'll call you out on this one. What scriptures have I misused recently?
Genesis 2. You call the truth a lie and the lie truth.
And you have continually denied what Jesus said about giving up everything for Him.
Phat writes:
I have only questioned the idea that a true Christian (and only them) should give up all that they have. Nobody has that much faith these days, early Apostles and widows with two mites notwithstanding.
And you really don't see how stupid that sounds? "I don't have enough faith, so I'll just ignore what Jesus said."
Phat writes:
Am I so different from you?
Yes. And I have told you this so very, very many times that you should remember it by now: You claim to believe in the guy who told you to do it. I don't feel obligated to do what Long Jon Silver said because I don't believe he ever existed.
Phat writes:
I would believe that if God wanted to be understood, He would impress that truth on those who had ears to hear.
I believe that if God existed, He would impress that truth on those who had ears to hear.
Phat writes:
Some of us are unknowingly and/or consciously in denial. Pot meet Kettle.
What am I in denial of?
Phat writes:
I evaluated the logic and reasonableness of giving every materialistic thing up and rejected it because I did not have the faith of a Raven.
Then what's the point in pretending to believe?
Phat writes:
What's your excuse?
See above. See all of the other times I have answered the same question?
What's your excuse for asking the same stupid question over and over and over again and ignoring the answer?

"I call that bold talk for a one-eyed fat man!"
-- Lucky Ned Pepper

This message is a reply to:
 Message 692 by Phat, posted 05-24-2022 3:07 PM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 703 by Phat, posted 05-27-2022 1:24 AM ringo has replied

  
Dredge
Member
Posts: 1582
From: Australia
Joined: 09-06-2016
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 700 of 763 (894692)
05-26-2022 9:58 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by coffee_addict
06-23-2004 12:39 PM


coffee_addict writes:
I have noticed that there are at least several Christian fundies here that have claimed that the end is near and it might just be around the corner.
Could someone please enlighten me as to when the end-times will come and how you came to that conclusion?
The re-birth of the nation of Israel is a sign of the end-times, I believe ... that happened in 1948.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by coffee_addict, posted 06-23-2004 12:39 PM coffee_addict has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 701 by AZPaul3, posted 05-27-2022 12:31 AM Dredge has replied

  
AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 6828
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 3.3


Message 701 of 763 (894698)
05-27-2022 12:31 AM
Reply to: Message 700 by Dredge
05-26-2022 9:58 PM


OK, so the end-times have already come and gone. So what's all the noise about?

Stop Tzar Vladimir the Condemned!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 700 by Dredge, posted 05-26-2022 9:58 PM Dredge has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 702 by Phat, posted 05-27-2022 12:48 AM AZPaul3 has replied
 Message 729 by Dredge, posted 05-31-2022 9:27 AM AZPaul3 has not replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 16055
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003


Message 702 of 763 (894699)
05-27-2022 12:48 AM
Reply to: Message 701 by AZPaul3
05-27-2022 12:31 AM


Climate Change Triggers The End Times
AZPaul3 writes:
OK, so the end-times have already come and gone. So what's all the noise about?
What makes you think they have come and gone? And ignoring the Christian apologetics for a moment, how can you picture us surviving climate change without more wars and pestilences? You know the facts. We are hopelessly behind the curve. Add a growing global population, scarcity of resources(such as water), and the prediction that global economies will likely have a depression right when the money needs to be spent.

"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
***
“…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox

“A God without wrath brought men without sin into a Kingdom without judgment through the ministrations of a Christ without a Cross.”
H. Richard Niebuhr, The Kingdom of God in America

“The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” — Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You
(1894).


This message is a reply to:
 Message 701 by AZPaul3, posted 05-27-2022 12:31 AM AZPaul3 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 704 by AZPaul3, posted 05-27-2022 1:27 AM Phat has not replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 16055
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003


Message 703 of 763 (894702)
05-27-2022 1:24 AM
Reply to: Message 699 by ringo
05-25-2022 12:52 PM


Re: JarThink
Phat, to ringo writes:
What scriptures have I misused recently?
ringo writes:
Genesis 2. You call the truth a lie and the lie truth.
No. I call your (and) jars interpretation of the truth a lie.
God does not lie. (There would be no reason to do so)
And there is no truth in the devil, according to scripture.
ringo writes:
Because those goddamn lying apologists have convinced you that "secular humanist" is a dirty word.
Secular humanism is neither good nor evil. It is simply mans attempt to ignore the "God concept" and figure life out on our own. How is that working for us? Besides....God wants Communion with humanity. He is not OK with us simply being indifferent due to "lack of evidence". And by the way, who told tou that unbelief is a default option? I do see it in scripture.
Romans 3:10-18 ESV writes:
as it is written: “None is righteous, no, not one;
11 no one understands; no one seeks for God.
12 All have turned aside; together they have become worthless;
no one does good, not even one.”
13 “Their throat is an open grave; they use their tongues to deceive. The venom of asps is under their lips.”
14 “Their mouth is full of curses and bitterness.”
15 “Their feet are swift to shed blood;
16 in their paths are ruin and misery,
17 and the way of peace they have not known.”
18 “There is no fear of God before their eyes.”
You and jar both mention Genesis 2. That view is very much a minority viewpoint. Yet you say it every darn time we interact.

"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
***
“…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox

“A God without wrath brought men without sin into a Kingdom without judgment through the ministrations of a Christ without a Cross.”
H. Richard Niebuhr, The Kingdom of God in America

“The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” — Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You
(1894).


This message is a reply to:
 Message 699 by ringo, posted 05-25-2022 12:52 PM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 705 by Tangle, posted 05-27-2022 3:43 AM Phat has replied
 Message 708 by ringo, posted 05-27-2022 1:17 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 6828
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 3.3


Message 704 of 763 (894703)
05-27-2022 1:27 AM
Reply to: Message 702 by Phat
05-27-2022 12:48 AM


Re: Climate Change Triggers The End Times
Read his post Phat.
He says the end times comes with the rebirth of Israel. That was 3 generations ago.
What this means, Phat, is that the end-times came and went for the intended generation and Jesus did not parade down the streets killing every third person he saw. God shot his end-times wad and missed.
Yes, climate change will kill humanity, all of it, with disasters too cruel for your book of revelations to fathom. But in this case the only god involved is us.

Stop Tzar Vladimir the Condemned!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 702 by Phat, posted 05-27-2022 12:48 AM Phat has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 730 by Dredge, posted 05-31-2022 9:30 AM AZPaul3 has replied

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 8576
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 2.9


(2)
Message 705 of 763 (894706)
05-27-2022 3:43 AM
Reply to: Message 703 by Phat
05-27-2022 1:24 AM


Re: JarThink
Phat writes:
Secular humanism is neither good nor evil.
You finally said something that's actually true.
It is simply mans attempt to ignore the "God concept" and figure life out on our own.
Well nearly. It doesn't ignore the 'god concept', it recognises that there is no 'god concept' and that any progress we make in our societies we make with our own efforts.
How is that working for us?
Rather better than the thousands of years we suffered with the 'god concept' don't you think?
Whether we're actually capable of fully shrugging off the superstitious nonsense that's still holding back most of the world AND saving ourselves from the animal behaviours we inherit from our recent history as descended apes, is still in the balance.
One thing's for absolute certain though, getting on our knees and muttering inanities to an imaginary overlord isn't going to help us.

Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London. Olen Suomi Soy Barcelona. I am Ukraine.

"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 703 by Phat, posted 05-27-2022 1:24 AM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 706 by Phat, posted 05-27-2022 11:25 AM Tangle has replied

  
Newer Topic | Older Topic
Jump to:


Copyright 2001-2018 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved

™ Version 4.1
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2022