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Author Topic:   When Will The End-Times Be And How Will We Know?
AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 6828
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 3.3


Message 676 of 763 (894564)
05-21-2022 3:47 PM
Reply to: Message 674 by Phat
05-21-2022 2:57 PM


Re: End Time Scenarios Are Possible
Humans should have learned by now...
What did you expect after 5000 years of religious zealotry having a lock on the human psyche? We are used to the religious answer being to kill everything we don't like.
We've only been doing this Enlightenment thing for 300+- years. There's a lot of broken minds in this species and will take many more generations to overcome.

Stop Tzar Vladimir the Condemned!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 674 by Phat, posted 05-21-2022 2:57 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 679 by Tanypteryx, posted 05-21-2022 4:03 PM AZPaul3 has not replied

  
Tanypteryx
Member
Posts: 3419
From: Oregon, USA
Joined: 08-27-2006
Member Rating: 4.2


(1)
Message 677 of 763 (894565)
05-21-2022 3:57 PM
Reply to: Message 675 by Phat
05-21-2022 3:42 PM


Re: Ringo/Phat Synopsis
lies and exaggerated falsehoods
I have to ask, what is an exaggerated falsehood?

Stop Tzar Vladimir the Condemned!

What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python

One important characteristic of a theory is that is has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie

If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --percy

The reason that we have the scientific method is because common sense isn't reliable. -- Taq


This message is a reply to:
 Message 675 by Phat, posted 05-21-2022 3:42 PM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 678 by Phat, posted 05-21-2022 4:02 PM Tanypteryx has replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 16055
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003


Message 678 of 763 (894566)
05-21-2022 4:02 PM
Reply to: Message 677 by Tanypteryx
05-21-2022 3:57 PM


Re: Ringo/Phat Synopsis
I have to ask, what is an exaggerated falsehood?
When Jerome Powell says that the Fed has the tools to check inflation and that the economy and the dollar are sound.

"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
***
“…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox

“A God without wrath brought men without sin into a Kingdom without judgment through the ministrations of a Christ without a Cross.”
H. Richard Niebuhr, The Kingdom of God in America

“The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” — Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You
(1894).


This message is a reply to:
 Message 677 by Tanypteryx, posted 05-21-2022 3:57 PM Tanypteryx has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 680 by Tanypteryx, posted 05-21-2022 4:06 PM Phat has replied

  
Tanypteryx
Member
Posts: 3419
From: Oregon, USA
Joined: 08-27-2006
Member Rating: 4.2


(3)
Message 679 of 763 (894567)
05-21-2022 4:03 PM
Reply to: Message 676 by AZPaul3
05-21-2022 3:47 PM


Re: End Time Scenarios Are Possible
I will admit to being nervous over the possibility of a one-world secular manifesto.
You mean something like "All humans have the same rights and responsibilities, no matter their sex, skin color, regional origin, or wealth"? Or "Taxes are the price of civilization"?
ABE: I don't know how this happened...this post was meant as a reply to Phat's Message 675

Edited by Tanypteryx, .


Stop Tzar Vladimir the Condemned!

What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python

One important characteristic of a theory is that is has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie

If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --percy

The reason that we have the scientific method is because common sense isn't reliable. -- Taq


This message is a reply to:
 Message 676 by AZPaul3, posted 05-21-2022 3:47 PM AZPaul3 has not replied

  
Tanypteryx
Member
Posts: 3419
From: Oregon, USA
Joined: 08-27-2006
Member Rating: 4.2


(2)
Message 680 of 763 (894568)
05-21-2022 4:06 PM
Reply to: Message 678 by Phat
05-21-2022 4:02 PM


Re: Ringo/Phat Synopsis
Ok, now I understand. You mean alternate facts, right?

Stop Tzar Vladimir the Condemned!

What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python

One important characteristic of a theory is that is has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie

If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --percy

The reason that we have the scientific method is because common sense isn't reliable. -- Taq


This message is a reply to:
 Message 678 by Phat, posted 05-21-2022 4:02 PM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 681 by Phat, posted 05-22-2022 2:41 AM Tanypteryx has replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 16055
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003


Message 681 of 763 (894579)
05-22-2022 2:41 AM
Reply to: Message 680 by Tanypteryx
05-21-2022 4:06 PM


Re: Ringo/Phat Synopsis
Yes. Just because the Fed says it does not make it automatically true or factual.

"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
***
“…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox

“A God without wrath brought men without sin into a Kingdom without judgment through the ministrations of a Christ without a Cross.”
H. Richard Niebuhr, The Kingdom of God in America

“The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” — Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You
(1894).


This message is a reply to:
 Message 680 by Tanypteryx, posted 05-21-2022 4:06 PM Tanypteryx has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 682 by Tanypteryx, posted 05-22-2022 12:32 PM Phat has replied

  
Tanypteryx
Member
Posts: 3419
From: Oregon, USA
Joined: 08-27-2006
Member Rating: 4.2


Message 682 of 763 (894586)
05-22-2022 12:32 PM
Reply to: Message 681 by Phat
05-22-2022 2:41 AM


Re: Ringo/Phat Synopsis
Yes. Just because the Fed says it does not make it automatically true or factual.
I would say that applies in every situation, truth should never be automatically assumed, but you switched from diplomatic "exaggerated falsehoods" to "truth" of what the Fed says.
Message 675
I would go so far as to say that in any diplomatic situation, lies and exaggerated falsehoods are usually involved by at least one party.
So, I'm not sure if you are saying we can never trust what the other side says in diplomatic situations, or that since WE always lie in diplomatic situations we should assume that everyone else also lies in diplomatic situations, and that we should never trust anything the Fed says in diplomatic situations?
You do realize that saying lies and exaggerated falsehoods in the same sentence is the same as saying lies and damned lies, right? It's just you trying to make it sound like you are providing more details to your post without actually providing more details.

Stop Tzar Vladimir the Condemned!

What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python

One important characteristic of a theory is that is has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie

If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --percy

The reason that we have the scientific method is because common sense isn't reliable. -- Taq


This message is a reply to:
 Message 681 by Phat, posted 05-22-2022 2:41 AM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 683 by Phat, posted 05-23-2022 11:45 AM Tanypteryx has seen this message but not replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 16055
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003


Message 683 of 763 (894598)
05-23-2022 11:45 AM
Reply to: Message 682 by Tanypteryx
05-22-2022 12:32 PM


Re: Ringo/Phat Synopsis
You do realize that saying lies and exaggerated falsehoods in the same sentence is the same as saying lies and damned lies, right? It's just you trying to make it sound like you are providing more details to your post without actually providing more details.
Duly noted. I was not trying to sound that way. I think my point is that the financial community seems to hang on the Fed's words as gospel and it ain't necessarily so. Frankly, I think they try to sway public opinion and perception as a tool unto itself.

"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
***
“…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox

“A God without wrath brought men without sin into a Kingdom without judgment through the ministrations of a Christ without a Cross.”
H. Richard Niebuhr, The Kingdom of God in America

“The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” — Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You
(1894).


This message is a reply to:
 Message 682 by Tanypteryx, posted 05-22-2022 12:32 PM Tanypteryx has seen this message but not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 685 by Theodoric, posted 05-23-2022 10:18 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 19720
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.8


(1)
Message 684 of 763 (894602)
05-23-2022 1:09 PM
Reply to: Message 675 by Phat
05-21-2022 3:42 PM


Re: Ringo/Phat Synopsis
Phat writes:
I will admit to being nervous over the possibility of a one-world secular manifesto.
Unlikely to happen. Secularists don't march in lock-step.
Phat writes:
ringo writes:
You refuse resolutely to discuss the idea that your apologists are liars.
I will try and discuss it, but keep in mind that humans, in general, tend to lie.
I don't think that's true.
Phat writes:
I would go so far as to say that in any diplomatic situation, lies and exaggerated falsehoods are usually involved by at least one party.
And in context, that party is the apologists.

"I call that bold talk for a one-eyed fat man!"
-- Lucky Ned Pepper

This message is a reply to:
 Message 675 by Phat, posted 05-21-2022 3:42 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 7403
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 2.6


Message 685 of 763 (894604)
05-23-2022 10:18 PM
Reply to: Message 683 by Phat
05-23-2022 11:45 AM


Re: Ringo/Phat Synopsis
How's that gold and crypto doing? Maybe you should have bought a tanker truck of oil. Just about as useful.

What can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence. -Christopher Hitchens

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 683 by Phat, posted 05-23-2022 11:45 AM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
Tanypteryx
Member
Posts: 3419
From: Oregon, USA
Joined: 08-27-2006
Member Rating: 4.2


(1)
Message 686 of 763 (894605)
05-23-2022 10:36 PM
Reply to: Message 675 by Phat
05-21-2022 3:42 PM


Re: Ringo/Phat Synopsis
I will admit to being nervous over the possibility of a one-world secular manifesto.
You mean something like "All humans have the same rights and responsibilities, no matter their sex, skin color, regional origin, or wealth"? Or "Taxes are the price of civilization"?

Stop Tzar Vladimir the Condemned!

What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python

One important characteristic of a theory is that is has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie

If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --percy

The reason that we have the scientific method is because common sense isn't reliable. -- Taq


This message is a reply to:
 Message 675 by Phat, posted 05-21-2022 3:42 PM Phat has not replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 16055
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003


Message 687 of 763 (894618)
05-24-2022 11:04 AM
Reply to: Message 114 by jar
05-12-2020 2:37 PM


Steering Back Towaards The Topic
Starting from Message 114
jar writes:
How do you question and challenge and test those beliefs?
Yes, I don't doubt that you believe you actually met God, yet you never explain how you determine that it is god and not a bad burrito or even more likely, Satan.
And once again, the actual topic is " When Will The End-Times Be And How Will We Know?"
Do you ever plan on addressing the topic?
Never (according to you). But stop and think.
Since 5-12-2020 the world has changed. We have our war in Ukraine. We have Vlad The Condemned threatening nuclear war. The facts show that even a limited exchange of such weapons would likely escalate. You know your history. Look at World War I and how a complex system of treaties and promises pulled the nations into an eventual semi-global conflict. And all because of some assassination.
Does NATO have treaty obligations?
Is Biden being a good leader by careless statements such as Biden’s Taiwan defense pledge inflames U.S.-China relations
The Doom & Gloomers have their negative view also, but in this video at least, some good points are raised.
Partial Transcript:
quote
The collapse of society is rapidly accelerating. Global events are escalating at an alarming pace. We’re now witnessing conflicts erupting all over the world. At the same time, global production is declining, supply chain problems are getting bigger, and our economic woes are getting worse. In fact, according to a new reassessment of a report released by a team of MIT scientists in 1970, human society is right on track for a collapse in the next two decades if there isn't a serious shift in global priorities. The report was published in the bestselling book "The Limits to Growth" (1972), in which the experts argued that industrial civilization was bound to collapse if corporations and governments continued to pursue the idea of infinite economic growth, no matter the costs.
The researchers forecasted 12 possible scenarios for the future, most of which predicted a point where natural resources would become so scarce that further economic growth would become impossible, and quality of life would sharply drop all over the planet. The report's most infamous scenario predicted that the global economic growth would be brought to a halt around the 2040s, when most economies in the world would face a massive meltdown, along with the global population, food availability, and natural resources.
However, this imminent "collapse" wouldn't be the end of the human race, but rather a societal turning point that would see standards of living free-falling around the world for decades, the team wrote. The decline of the civilization as we know it would include dramatic disruptions to trade routes, shifts in supply and demand, disease, environmental degradation, and extreme political dysfunction. In such an apocalyptic scenario, “you can see that the basic needs of society are not being met, or cannot be accomplished,” explained Bar-Oz, an archaeologist at the University of Haifa. “Losing food security, losing basic security, everyone agrees this is a way to measure collapse.”
Everything suggests that it is not a question of if but when these events will happen. History has taught us that civilizations do not last forever. And recent trends show that our society is reaching an irreversible turning point. How quickly could these events become so drastic that they would spark an apocalyptic shift in society? Quicker than we think. In today’s video, we compiled several signs that expose a societal collapse that has already begun and the downfall of our major institutions and infrastructures is gaining speed with each passing year.
On top of all the mentioned facts, it seems that another health emergency is looming on the horizon. A monkeypox outbreak seems to be spreading like wildfire. On May 7th, the very first case in the western world was confirmed. Now, less than three weeks later, more than 80 cases have been confirmed in 12 different countries and the number of suspected cases continues to rise, and that should greatly alarm all of us.
As the societal “apocalypse” approaches, the poorest will be the hardest hit, as they always do, while the wealthiest may be insulated - up to a certain point. As events develop, the pain will rapidly move up the global economic chain. And we'll see a catastrophic surge in political turbulence, humanitarian crises, instability, and geo-strategic rivalries across a hungry and devastated world. The challenges ahead are truly biblical. And the numbers exposed in this video are proof that things are rapidly running out of control.

Even our very own anti-theist, AZPaul3, acknowledges that climate change is occurring far more rapidly than human attempts at mitigation and society is hopelessly behind the curve.
You often say that "we will get the world that we want" but I highly doubt anybody wants this.

"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
***
“…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox

“A God without wrath brought men without sin into a Kingdom without judgment through the ministrations of a Christ without a Cross.”
H. Richard Niebuhr, The Kingdom of God in America

“The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” — Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You
(1894).


This message is a reply to:
 Message 114 by jar, posted 05-12-2020 2:37 PM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 688 by jar, posted 05-24-2022 11:23 AM Phat has replied
 Message 689 by ringo, posted 05-24-2022 11:43 AM Phat has not replied

  
jar
Member
Posts: 33957
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 2.2


Message 688 of 763 (894619)
05-24-2022 11:23 AM
Reply to: Message 687 by Phat
05-24-2022 11:04 AM


Re: Steering Back Towaards The Topic
Phat writes:
You often say that "we will get the world that we want" but I highly doubt anybody wants this.
And that is a great summary of the problem.
The fact is that people, particularly the Christian Cult of Willful Ignorance and Deceit want.
You what.
But what is missing is any evidence that the Christian Cult of Willful Ignorance and Deceit want to do the work to get what they want.
The issue is that a very large percentage of our population both in the US and worldwide will not choose to do the work needed.
What the want is "Holy Jeeves".

My Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 687 by Phat, posted 05-24-2022 11:04 AM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 690 by Phat, posted 05-24-2022 2:29 PM jar has replied

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 19720
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.8


Message 689 of 763 (894620)
05-24-2022 11:43 AM
Reply to: Message 687 by Phat
05-24-2022 11:04 AM


Re: Steering Back Towaards The Topic
The collapse of society is rapidly accelerating.
Nonsense.

"I call that bold talk for a one-eyed fat man!"
-- Lucky Ned Pepper

This message is a reply to:
 Message 687 by Phat, posted 05-24-2022 11:04 AM Phat has not replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 16055
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003


Message 690 of 763 (894629)
05-24-2022 2:29 PM
Reply to: Message 688 by jar
05-24-2022 11:23 AM


Re: Steering Back Towaards The Topic
jar writes:
The issue is that a very large percentage of our population both in the US and worldwide will not choose to do the work needed.
You of course mention the CCoWI.
Keep in mind that not all of them are Fox News Conservatives. The fact is that many Christians, Jews, and Muslims contribute vast amounts of money to causes that they feel are worthy. Granted, so do Atheists.
In regards to climate change and the work required to mitigate it, I believe that we all have failed so far...not just the religious folk. Only this year did the state even start charging for the use of plastic bags! It really is slow to catch on. Apart from recycling and increased use of electric vehicles, the only other priority which you might have mentioned before is political involvement and you know that society never has had a consensus on that. I mentioned Biden's recent Taiwan Gaffe and heard no response from any Democrats. Had Trump said something stupid like that the forum would be full of responses. So in regards to what we (you) want, just what type of leader do we want/need?
In Apologetic Christian mythos, the anti-christ gives the people what they want and they don't catch on until it's too late! But all politics aside...
I have often spoken of the inflation and devaluation of the US Dollar and Western money. You guys seem to think I have no clue, but I think it is you who will see the problem soon.
BRIC (Brazil, Russia, China, India) are pulling away from the US Dollar and the Fiat Money system is being challenged. Part of the problem in my opinion is that many of the citizens see no problem printing more money when it goes to worthy causes and not simply to line Oligarchs' pockets.
Finally, we have ringo. He expects that problems will get solved once the Christians sell all that they have and feed, clothe, and comfort the masses. With inflation increasing and the net worth of US citizens declining in real purchasing power, I see little expectation that we will do anything more than get desperate to preserve our vanishing ways of life. And if anyone is going to give up more resources...either through taxation or moral charge, EVERYONE has to do it...not just the church folk.

"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
***
“…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox

“A God without wrath brought men without sin into a Kingdom without judgment through the ministrations of a Christ without a Cross.”
H. Richard Niebuhr, The Kingdom of God in America

“The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” — Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You
(1894).


This message is a reply to:
 Message 688 by jar, posted 05-24-2022 11:23 AM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 691 by jar, posted 05-24-2022 2:54 PM Phat has replied
 Message 694 by AZPaul3, posted 05-24-2022 4:10 PM Phat has not replied

  
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