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Author Topic:   What specific evidence would people require to believe in God's existence?
jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 211 of 222 (710481)
11-05-2013 4:34 PM
Reply to: Message 207 by Faith
11-05-2013 3:43 PM


Re: Evidence leads to faith
HUH?
The Bible is not based on an assumption of the reality of God?

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 207 by Faith, posted 11-05-2013 3:43 PM Faith has not replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 212 of 222 (710482)
11-05-2013 4:35 PM
Reply to: Message 210 by Faith
11-05-2013 4:25 PM


Re: Evidence leads to faith
The Koran contains almost all of the history found in the Bible.
The Rig Veda does not give history?

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 210 by Faith, posted 11-05-2013 4:25 PM Faith has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 215 by Theodoric, posted 11-05-2013 4:42 PM jar has replied

  
Diomedes
Member
Posts: 995
From: Central Florida, USA
Joined: 09-13-2013


Message 213 of 222 (710483)
11-05-2013 4:36 PM
Reply to: Message 210 by Faith
11-05-2013 4:25 PM


Re: Evidence leads to faith
The Koran is predominantly instruction, just about no history, designed to teach Muslims what to believe and do, not designed to prove anything about God's existence
That is actually not correct. The Koran is actually very historical in that it is a first hand account by the prophet Mohammed himself.
The Torah is of course part of the Bible I'm talking about, predominantly history designed to teach of the existence and nature of God
Fair enough.
Buddhism teaches practices designed to escape the sufferings of the world. In a sense it's not even a religion
I would disagree. Buddhism has a code of ethics, but it also has a strong spiritual core that puts forth notions of reincarnation, and the eternality of the living spirit. Which would put it squarely in the religion camp.
The religions of multiple gods also don't give history. They don't have any
This is also not correct. Multiple texts which invoke pagan gods such as Athena, Zeus also provide historical accounts. For example, the Homeric writings regarding the Trojan War are now deemed historical.

"Our future lies not in our dogmatic past, but in our enlightened present"

This message is a reply to:
 Message 210 by Faith, posted 11-05-2013 4:25 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 218 by Faith, posted 11-05-2013 6:17 PM Diomedes has replied

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 9076
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 3.7


Message 214 of 222 (710484)
11-05-2013 4:40 PM
Reply to: Message 208 by Diomedes
11-05-2013 3:48 PM


Re: Evidence leads to faith
Well to be fair to Faith she has posted all of the evidence she has. She has also posted no evidence.

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts
"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 208 by Diomedes, posted 11-05-2013 3:48 PM Diomedes has not replied

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 9076
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 3.7


Message 215 of 222 (710485)
11-05-2013 4:42 PM
Reply to: Message 212 by jar
11-05-2013 4:35 PM


Re: Evidence leads to faith
The Koran contains almost all of the history found in the Bible.
The Rig Veda does not give history?
Well I guess she could be forgiven for being wrong about them as she has never read them. I would be very surprised if she has even picked one up or seen one.

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts
"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 212 by jar, posted 11-05-2013 4:35 PM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 216 by jar, posted 11-05-2013 4:46 PM Theodoric has not replied
 Message 217 by Faith, posted 11-05-2013 6:08 PM Theodoric has not replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 216 of 222 (710486)
11-05-2013 4:46 PM
Reply to: Message 215 by Theodoric
11-05-2013 4:42 PM


Re: Evidence leads to faith
It seems she has never read the Bible either.

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 215 by Theodoric, posted 11-05-2013 4:42 PM Theodoric has not replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 217 of 222 (710490)
11-05-2013 6:08 PM
Reply to: Message 215 by Theodoric
11-05-2013 4:42 PM


Re: Evidence leads to faith
The Rig Veda is not history:
Rigveda - Wikipedia
The Koran gives mostly instruction, as I said. Read it.
I came to Christianity THROUGH reading about other religions.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 215 by Theodoric, posted 11-05-2013 4:42 PM Theodoric has not replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 218 of 222 (710491)
11-05-2013 6:17 PM
Reply to: Message 213 by Diomedes
11-05-2013 4:36 PM


Re: Evidence leads to faith
"First hand account" by Mohammed? Mohammed got his stuff from an entity he called the Angel Gabriel. Oh, along with passages he plagiarized and distorted from the Bible, some pretty laughable stuff there as he confuses characters from both Testaments. There is no "first hand" anything to it. And read it: it's just about nothing but commands and instructions. Except the plagiarized stuff and some other brief parts of it.
Fine, call Buddhism a religion then but only the folk versions involve worship of a deity, which is the Buddha himself.
And are gods and goddesses considered to be a HISTORICAL part of the Trojan war?
But all this merely distracts from the point. The ONLY religious text that is predominantly history DESIGNED TO DEMONSTRATE THE EXISTENCE AND NATURE OF GOD (which the writings of Homer are not) is the Bible.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 213 by Diomedes, posted 11-05-2013 4:36 PM Diomedes has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 219 by frako, posted 11-06-2013 6:23 AM Faith has not replied
 Message 220 by jar, posted 11-06-2013 8:14 AM Faith has not replied
 Message 221 by Diomedes, posted 11-06-2013 9:18 AM Faith has not replied

  
frako
Member (Idle past 306 days)
Posts: 2932
From: slovenija
Joined: 09-04-2010


Message 219 of 222 (710505)
11-06-2013 6:23 AM
Reply to: Message 218 by Faith
11-05-2013 6:17 PM


Re: Evidence leads to faith
But all this merely distracts from the point. The ONLY religious text that is predominantly history DESIGNED TO DEMONSTRATE THE EXISTENCE AND NATURE OF GOD (which the writings of Homer are not) is the Bible.
Um what about the gods of my ancestors huh, i forgot witch god gave us something to plant wen we come to our "promised" land if it will grow we are at the right spot. We do grow the stuff and our people did migrate to Slovenia, we are Slovans we came from behind the Carpathians.
So our gods must be true then right.
Or the norse gods that gave their people the berserker ability, its not only in their legends its even told in lands they where hired as mercenaries. No blade could harm them, though they did seem susceptible to blunt force trauma.
Every religion has bits an pieces of real history mashed in to it including the bible. Just like harry potter books mention real places. That does not mean harry was/is real.
You want to prove to me that your god is real infect yourself with leprosy then perform the cure written in the bible if it works we can talk further.

Christianity, One woman's lie about an affair that got seriously out of hand
What are the Christians gonna do to me ..... Forgive me, good luck with that.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 218 by Faith, posted 11-05-2013 6:17 PM Faith has not replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


(2)
Message 220 of 222 (710514)
11-06-2013 8:14 AM
Reply to: Message 218 by Faith
11-05-2013 6:17 PM


Re: Evidence leads to faith
Faith writes:
But all this merely distracts from the point. The ONLY religious text that is predominantly history DESIGNED TO DEMONSTRATE THE EXISTENCE AND NATURE OF GOD (which the writings of Homer are not) is the Bible.
But most of the history in the Bible like the Garden of Eden, the Flood, the Conquest of Canaan, the Tower of Babel, the Exodus never happened.
How is that different than Homer?

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 218 by Faith, posted 11-05-2013 6:17 PM Faith has not replied

  
Diomedes
Member
Posts: 995
From: Central Florida, USA
Joined: 09-13-2013


(1)
Message 221 of 222 (710518)
11-06-2013 9:18 AM
Reply to: Message 218 by Faith
11-05-2013 6:17 PM


Re: Evidence leads to faith
"First hand account" by Mohammed? Mohammed got his stuff from an entity he called the Angel Gabriel. Oh, along with passages he plagiarized and distorted from the Bible, some pretty laughable stuff there as he confuses characters from both Testaments. There is no "first hand" anything to it. And read it: it's just about nothing but commands and instructions. Except the plagiarized stuff and some other brief parts of it.
And how is this different from copious references in the bible of specific individuals receiving their 'instructions' from angels, burning bushes, and so forth?
Additionally, of course he plagiarized. The Koran is a derivative of the original Torah. Which, by the way, the Bible plagiarized.
Fine, call Buddhism a religion then but only the folk versions involve worship of a deity, which is the Buddha himself
Belief in a deity is not a prerequisite of a religion.
And are gods and goddesses considered to be a HISTORICAL part of the Trojan war?
From the standpoint of the Homeric writings, yes. Various heroes in the Trojan war were either demigods or influenced by gods. Achilles was the son of a goddess. As was Ajax. And my own moniker (Diomedes) is based off of a hero in the war that was possessed by the spirit of Athena.
But all this merely distracts from the point. The ONLY religious text that is predominantly history DESIGNED TO DEMONSTRATE THE EXISTENCE AND NATURE OF GOD (which the writings of Homer are not) is the Bible.
Evidence to counter your initial claim is not a distraction. It is evidence.

"Our future lies not in our dogmatic past, but in our enlightened present"

This message is a reply to:
 Message 218 by Faith, posted 11-05-2013 6:17 PM Faith has not replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 222 of 222 (710527)
11-06-2013 11:03 AM
Reply to: Message 206 by Faith
11-05-2013 3:39 PM


Re: Evidence leads to faith
Faith writes:
People usually want extraordinary evidence for extraordinary claims, that's the usual refrain here.
Ultimately, extraordinary claims do require extraordinary evidence but we need to start at the beginning, with ordinary evidence.
Faith writes:
But you have USUAL evidence too, of course, which you can find in the history of Christianity.
The history in the Bible is pretty unreliable. If you're taking things like the talking snake as "history" you're just barking mad and that comes nowhere near the evidence I've asked for.
But as I've already said, I don't take George's word for it that Charlie is who he says he is, even if the Book of George is part of your canon. What I'm asking for - all I'm asking for - is the same evidence that you yourself would require for the gasman's existence.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 206 by Faith, posted 11-05-2013 3:39 PM Faith has not replied

  
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