What specific evidence would people require to believe in God's existence?

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But if God is omnipotent and benevolent, there's no need for any accountability at all.

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As the Ultimate Ruler over all things, are we to expect anything less than death in the face of betrayal? It would seem as though you are in need of a slightly less powerful god than the one in question. Word has it that there is indeed such a candidate, and as luck would have it, he is an avid supporter of doing whatever the heart desires.So you see, God caters to all his human creations, both good and bad.

I don't know where you're getting that.I made a simple statement and your sermon didn't address it at all:

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If God is omnipotent and benevolent, there's no need for any accountability at all.

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If God is omnipotent, He doesn't need our help. He doesn't need anything from us.If God is benevolent, He won't make demands of us. He'll make suggestions for our benefit.So, there's no reason for us to be accountable to God.

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“Faith moves mountains, but only knowledge moves them to the right place” -- Joseph Goebbels
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Fantastic recovery! - good for you. btw. doesn't the omnipotent and benevolent argument belong in a neighboring thread?Edited by pbee, : typo's

It is telling that you rambled on (regurgitating a prior sermon perhaps) without addressing the point at all. Were you perhaps responding to someone else's pointGod is a worker. Ok, great. What does that have to do with the point on why would God reward blind belief? or consider it good that we should believe things without any evidence. Perhaps God rewards honest reasoning and punishes foolish faith.And just who is being flamboyant and asking "Let God show himself! so that we don't go out looking."?????This is a straw man.A fool will believe anything, but a sensible person considers his steps. ” Proverbs 14:15.Why is it not wise to look for evidence and use reasoning (considering your steps) so as not to fall into a trap being lured by selfish promises of everlasting life?

Not necessarily. Since you concede that we are not accountable to God, maybe you'll concede also that He is accountable to us, in a way. If He wanted us to believe in His existence, the onus would be on Him to convince us, to produce evidence that is satisfactory to us.

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“Faith moves mountains, but only knowledge moves them to the right place” -- Joseph Goebbels
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It is telling that you rambled on (regurgitating a prior sermon perhaps) without addressing the point at all. Were you perhaps responding to someone else's point

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Don't do church, nor sermons(nice try though).

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God is a worker. Ok, great. What does that have to do with the point on why would God reward blind belief? or consider it good that we should believe things without any evidence. Perhaps God rewards honest reasoning and punishes foolish faith.

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And just who is being flamboyant and asking "Let God show himself! so that we don't go out looking."?????

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This is a straw man.

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A fool will believe anything, but a sensible person considers his steps. ” Proverbs 14:15.

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Why is it not wise to look for evidence and use reasoning (considering your steps) so as not to fall into a trap being lured by selfish promises of everlasting life?

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Alright, I'll dumb it down, nice and small for those with short attention spans and learning disabilities.Nothing is free! God exemplified that work was the key to earning everything. Even Adam and Eve had to make an effort in order to betray God! It is only the lazy ones who will complain of the efforts needed to gain an accurate knowledge of God. But look! millions of people have taken the initiative and attained there goals. So to that I say, stop whining like spoiled children, and earn your reward like abled men.Edited by pbee, : No reason given.

I have no issues with this line of though. I beleive that God took the initiative and provided us with the tools to obtain an accurate knowledge of Him. I do not however, beleive that God would provide us with what we wanted in order to achieve this goal. I beleive that God devised a fool proof system aimed at protecting these things from the undeserving.Jesus indicated this when he prayed to his Father saying "I publicly praise you, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because you have hidden these things from the wise and intellectual ones and have revealed them to babes." Fishermen and tax collectors got the sense of Jesus’ teaching, while highly educated religious leaders did not. Jesus further said "No man can come to me unless the Father, who sent me, draws him".As we live our lives in harmony with God's will, we strengthen our relationship with Him. Our own awareness will show that he understands and loves us. We learn through experience that he supports us during difficult times. We then discover that he truly listens to our prayers. We come to rely on his guidance, confident that it will benefit us. And we have the wonderful hope that in due time God will bring his faithful ones to perfection and grant them everlasting life."Draw close to God, and he will draw close to you" wrote James.
I don't know about the rest of you, but this sounds like the perfect system, in response to the current condition of things!

Define "undeserving".Remember, the topic is "What specific evidence would people require to believe in God's existence?" It isn't about making up any lame old apologetic to excuse the status quo.Fact: There are people who don't believe in God.Question: What evidence would they require? What evidence might they reasonably ask for?Do they need to pre-believe in order to be "deserving"?

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“Faith moves mountains, but only knowledge moves them to the right place” -- Joseph Goebbels
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This topic appears to be weaving all over the place like a drunken driver! Just to refocus, here is the O.P.:

It has been asserted that there can be no proof of God. Only Belief. I have no problem with this, because my belief is strong!

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Some people ask which God we are talking about! They have a valid point! Others ask who?? My question is, why even bring it up if you are not familiar with God?

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God may be an uncaused first cause and He may also be an unsupported assertion.

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Were God to exist, He most certainly would have no need of support anyway.

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Ringo writes:

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Remember, the topic is "What specific evidence would people require to believe in God's existence?" It isn't about making up any lame old apologetic to excuse the status quo.

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Fact: There are people who don't believe in God.

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Question: What evidence would they require? What evidence might they reasonably ask for?

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Do they need to pre-believe in order to be "deserving"?

Thanks Ringo for keeping the ship steady enough to avoid hitting any icebergs!

I was not aware that personal insults are a feature of Christian beliefs. You are still going to have to break it down further because you are still not making sense.Your implied presumption is that those who state that unfounded and unevidenced beliefs are bunk (aka blind faith) are lazy. While the opposite is true. Many Christians have spent very little time understanding their own "holy book", what are the difficult parts and how did it come in existence, etc, because they have been overly seduced with promises of everlasting life or supernatural intervention in their lives. Most conversions are leap-of-faith style that requires no work, just overworked emotions. Where are you getting this notion that I, or anyone else here is complaining about the "efforts needed to gain an accurate knowledge of God"? I am stating the unfounded and unevidenced beliefs lead to superstition, fractured and flawed philosophies and are not to valued. Are you talking about Talmudists, Buddhist or Mormons?Edited by iceage, : typos

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Define "undeserving".

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Who can honestly make such determinations. My guess us that such things fall under the privileged information act.

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Remember, the topic is "What specific evidence would people require to believe in God's existence?" It isn't about making up any lame old apologetic to excuse the status quo.

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The topic is as broad as the Sahara desert. Are we implying that there is a set standard? The world is vast and filled with individuality, which ties in nicely with my previous post by the way.

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Fact: There are people who don't believe in God.

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Indeed.

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Question: What evidence would they require?

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Again, variables of great proportions. However, I have no doubt that they would be given an equal opportunity.

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What evidence might they reasonably ask for?

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Now thats, interesting. Are they asking? if so, Who are they asking? God doesn't turn down sincere prayers. In fact, I beleive that even person who have grown lacking any knowledge or education on matters, would receive an equal opportunity just the same.

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Do they need to pre-believe in order to be "deserving"?

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No, Jesus demonstrated that.

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I was not aware that personal insults are a feature of Christian beliefs.

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Are you somehow presuming that am bound by some religious groupies? Or perhaps you are under the impression that I'm here to to the work of the lord? Let it be known, that I couldn't care less and that I see no need to dance around such languorous comments.

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Your implied presumption is that those who state that unfounded and unevidenced belief (aka blind faith) are lazy. While the opposite is true. Many Christians have spent very little time understanding their own "holy book", what are the difficult parts and how did it come in existence, etc, because they have been overly seduced with promises of everlasting life or supernatural intervention in their lives. Most conversions are leap-of-faith style that requires no work, just overworked emotions.

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And you think this proves the statement wrong? Your text says it all. They are basking in the ignorance of there own demise. Case and point.

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Are you talking about Talmudists, Buddhist or Mormons?

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Is that a trick question?

Define "sincere prayers". Is a request for evidence on an Internet forum less sincere than an intonation in a cathedral?We have people asking for evidence of God's existence and we have apologists making excuses for those requests being denied. So you are making an attempt at defining "deserving". If only you put as much effort into thinking about the questions as you do into evading them.

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“Faith moves mountains, but only knowledge moves them to the right place” -- Joseph Goebbels
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Define "sincere prayers". Is a request for evidence on an Internet forum less sincere than an intonation in a cathedral?

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First of all, stating the obvious, the internet does not equate prayer. However, who knows, it could very well lead someone to achieve such things.

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We have people asking for evidence of God's existence and we have apologists making excuses for those requests being denied.

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Since when are humans responsible for proving God's existence? And who is in a position to determine what requests are approved and denied?Granted, we have an abundance of people who speak out of context where God is concerned. However, is this even an issue? We have observed such behavior on all aspect of belief and human interests throughout recorded history. As, stated earlier, it is most likely that such encounters could lead someone to the proper channels.

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So you are making an attempt at defining "deserving". If only you put as much effort into thinking about the questions as you do into evading them.

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Please... don't patronize me with such weak deductions. It is quite obvious that we share nothing where scriptural knowledge is concerned. And to add insult to injury, despite your seemingly acute sense of failing allurements, you seem impaired by the simpler issues such as encompassing context.As for "deserving", It is doubtful that any human would possess the authority to define such conditions(deserving), let alone the fools who would think otherwise.Edited by pbee, : typo

Why not? What makes prayer prayer? (Probably a different topic, so don't get too hung up on it here. Just think about it.) I'm not saying they are. I'm saying that there are humans - on this very thread **ahem** - making excuses for God not proving His existence. The people who ask for evidence are in a position to ask why their requests are denied. You're the one who used the term to divide the deserving from the undeserving. You can't just run away from your own terminology by claiming that nobody knows which is which. If you don't know who's "undeserving", you can't know whether or not there's anybody in that category.The topic is "What specific evidence would people require to believe in God's existence?" - not "What specific excuses can you make for the lack of evidence?"

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“Faith moves mountains, but only knowledge moves them to the right place” -- Joseph Goebbels
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