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Author Topic:   Open Question For Jerry Falwell (and those who agree with him)
simple 
Inactive Member


Message 91 of 180 (312909)
05-17-2006 3:18 PM
Reply to: Message 89 by ramoss
05-17-2006 2:56 PM


We believers will never die, or taste death. The passing of our mortal bodies is merely, like a butterfly, a stage we go through. He could not have been talking about us. Here is a hint, there were also some Pharisees standing there, if memory serves.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 89 by ramoss, posted 05-17-2006 2:56 PM ramoss has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 104 by ramoss, posted 05-18-2006 9:56 AM simple has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 92 of 180 (312914)
05-17-2006 3:26 PM
Reply to: Message 88 by Faith
05-17-2006 1:54 PM


more nonsense from the End Timers
The End Times are Coming!
The End Times are Coming!
Talk about Chicken Little.
Couple thousand to be exact. Getting nearer all the time, and Buz is right, the signs are increasing.
Absolutely untrue. What's more, in every thread and topic where buz has brought the subject up he has been unable to show that there are any such signs and any such increase.
The evidence that such signs are increasing exists only the minds of those who once again want to con the public and get the gullible to move yet more money into the coffers of the snake oil salesmen.

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 88 by Faith, posted 05-17-2006 1:54 PM Faith has not replied

  
CK
Member (Idle past 4128 days)
Posts: 3221
Joined: 07-04-2004


Message 93 of 180 (312915)
05-17-2006 3:26 PM
Reply to: Message 90 by simple
05-17-2006 3:15 PM


Re: Right on, Whisper
I've got to bit on this - which world leader is the anti-christ?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 90 by simple, posted 05-17-2006 3:15 PM simple has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 94 by simple, posted 05-17-2006 4:08 PM CK has not replied

  
simple 
Inactive Member


Message 94 of 180 (312932)
05-17-2006 4:08 PM
Reply to: Message 93 by CK
05-17-2006 3:26 PM


Re: Right on, Whisper
I have no Idea. When he is revealed, believers will recognize him by several traits. --Like invading Jerusalem, and a 7 year covenant, setting up an image, making all by law get (likely) an chip implant to replace money, and stopping the animal sacrifices of the Jews that start again. I could get fancy, but that should cover it.

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Replies to this message:
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anglagard
Member (Idle past 837 days)
Posts: 2339
From: Socorro, New Mexico USA
Joined: 03-18-2006


Message 95 of 180 (312934)
05-17-2006 4:12 PM
Reply to: Message 87 by nator
05-17-2006 1:40 PM


quote:
And let's not forget the Black Death, which killed 34 million people over 5 years in the mid fourteenth century. That was fully one third of the population of Europe.
That was divine punishment for medievalism. If the majority of Christians reject science again, God will rain down plagues again.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 87 by nator, posted 05-17-2006 1:40 PM nator has not replied

  
Omnivorous
Member
Posts: 3978
From: Adirondackia
Joined: 07-21-2005
Member Rating: 7.3


Message 96 of 180 (312945)
05-17-2006 4:42 PM
Reply to: Message 87 by nator
05-17-2006 1:40 PM


Less is more the second time around
schrafinator writes:
We have been seeing less large-scale death from disease, catastrophy and war in recent centuries, not less, buz.

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iano
Member (Idle past 1941 days)
Posts: 6165
From: Co. Wicklow, Ireland.
Joined: 07-27-2005


Message 97 of 180 (312948)
05-17-2006 4:48 PM
Reply to: Message 96 by Omnivorous
05-17-2006 4:42 PM


Re: Less is more the second time around
Was that a wry grin or what. Less killed in war in this century...hmmm

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Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1445 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 98 of 180 (312998)
05-17-2006 9:40 PM
Reply to: Message 89 by ramoss
05-17-2006 2:56 PM


They didn't taste death before they saw it
So who are those peopel from 2000 years ago that 'woudl not taste death' before the endtimes came?
I mean, if you take the bible as truth, they have to still be alive.
Why? It's not about the endtimes (except in the sense that those times began with the ascension of Christ). What it actually says is that they would not taste death until they saw Jesus come in power (Matthew) or saw the Kingdom of God come (Luke).
The Kingdom of God came in power to His followers at Pentecost. All His disciples experienced that. And that was Jesus Himself coming in power to rule the world through the people He indwelt through the Holy Spirit, and after that His Kingdom spread like wildfire. It is still with us, having survived every kind of plot to defeat it.
Some even read that promise to refer to the very next chapter in Matthew about the Mount of Transfiguration where Peter and John saw Jesus in His glorified state with Moses and Elijah.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

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anglagard
Member (Idle past 837 days)
Posts: 2339
From: Socorro, New Mexico USA
Joined: 03-18-2006


Message 99 of 180 (313005)
05-17-2006 10:47 PM
Reply to: Message 97 by iano
05-17-2006 4:48 PM


Re: Less is more the second time around
As a percentage of the total world population:
If one looks superficially, then war in the 20th century killed approximately double the people than war in the 19th, which is approximately double or more that in the 18th.
Deaths from natural catastrophe (outside of famine) has decreased since the 19th century when individual earthquakes killed people by the near millions in their shoddy built homes. However the raw amount of death is much less significant than that from war or the next major causes.
Death from preventible disease has clearly gone down since the late 1700s because of vaccines, starting with Smallpox, and progressing through today. Plagues have been a major problem throughout history but are decreasing over time because of the use of the scientific method in combatting such plagues. Death through preventible disease would be much larger than wars or natural disasters combined, particularly if one considers infant mortality. The effect of disease in the New World exterminated between 80 and 90% of the indigineous population between 1492 and 1800. This alone could account for nearly 100 million deaths - double the count of WWII.
Another form of death in history, which would nearly equal that of war, would be due to deliberate genocide. While there are clear cases of large scale genocide in the 20th century from Germany, Russia, China, and Turkey there are also potentially even larger examples due to colonization and the slave trade. Estimates from deaths due to the slave trade between 1492 and 1883 have been as high as 100 million, but at least 20 million would be a very conservative estimate. Death due to genocide could be considered part of death due to war.
All of these causes of death pale in significance to deaths due to famine, which prior to modern agricultural methods due to invention and later formal science would outnumber all other causes combined until the 20th century. The amount of death due to famine would also have generally decreased over the last 500 years, particularly if one considers accounts from China and India. Famine could of course be considered a part of catastrophe.
Therefore Schrafinator's assertion that death due to disease, catastrophe, and war has decreased over the last several centuries, if taken as a whole rather than picked apart for each individual cause, is essentially correct, especially if viewed as a percentage of the total population of the Earth rather than as a raw number.
I naturally feel no need to agree with those who assert the end times are near because the amount of deaths due to various natural and man-made calamities are increasing.
This reply, while to Iano, represents a general evaluation of Schrafinator's assertion. Iano {ABE - and Omnivorous were} correct in implying more people were killed in the 20th century due to war than in previous centuries, although the religious wars between Protestants and Catholics in the 17th century would have come in second at least if one considers the last 500 years and as a percentage of the world population. The prior deprivations of the Mongol Empire, the fall of the Western Roman Empire, and various convulsions in other areas, particularly China, may have even exceeded this figure as a percentage of world population but the further one goes back in time the more potential error is introduced.
Edited by anglagard, : To include omnivorous.

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Replies to this message:
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 Message 103 by Omnivorous, posted 05-18-2006 8:20 AM anglagard has replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1445 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 100 of 180 (313089)
05-18-2006 3:49 AM
Reply to: Message 99 by anglagard
05-17-2006 10:47 PM


Re: Less is more the second time around
I naturally feel no need to agree with those who assert the end times are near because the amount of deaths due to various natural and man-made calamities are increasing
Both Buz and I specifically said that the NUMBER OF DEATHS is not the point and here you are answering the point we said was not the point. Oh well.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 99 by anglagard, posted 05-17-2006 10:47 PM anglagard has not replied

  
RickJB
Member (Idle past 4991 days)
Posts: 917
From: London, UK
Joined: 04-14-2006


Message 101 of 180 (313108)
05-18-2006 6:16 AM
Reply to: Message 76 by Buzsaw
05-16-2006 12:13 AM


Utter bunk.
Other "end times" predictions...
Page not found - Rapture Ready
We're still here!!
Edited by RickJB, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
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CK
Member (Idle past 4128 days)
Posts: 3221
Joined: 07-04-2004


Message 102 of 180 (313111)
05-18-2006 6:27 AM
Reply to: Message 101 by RickJB
05-18-2006 6:16 AM


Re: Utter bunk.
It's the toolkit of the fundermentalist. One that only contains two tools -
The pleading
quote:
surely you could try to get to know god?
God loves you and wants you to know him!
etc
and then the vague threats
quote:
Well the wicked are being punished
It's a judgement on the wiked
what if you were wrong and you went to hell
etc
Oh and then you have the combination of the two.
I'd hate for you not to know the love of jesus and burn in hell.
Edited by CK, : No reason given.
Edited by CK, : Combination of the two.

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Omnivorous
Member
Posts: 3978
From: Adirondackia
Joined: 07-21-2005
Member Rating: 7.3


Message 103 of 180 (313124)
05-18-2006 8:20 AM
Reply to: Message 99 by anglagard
05-17-2006 10:47 PM


Re: Less is more the second time around
anglagard writes:
Iano {ABE - and Omnivorous were} correct in implying more people were killed in the 20th century due to war than in previous centuries
I was merely pointing out, in my obscure, fun-loving way, that the second occurrence of the word "less" in schraf's sentence was meant to be "more":
schraf writes:
We have been seeing less large-scale death from disease, catastrophy and war in recent centuries, not less, buz.
I meant to take no position otherwise (there's one death out there for everyone, after all, and I don't see the pacing or means as theologically relevant), but I find your summary persuasive.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 99 by anglagard, posted 05-17-2006 10:47 PM anglagard has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 110 by anglagard, posted 05-18-2006 8:26 PM Omnivorous has replied

  
ramoss
Member (Idle past 612 days)
Posts: 3228
Joined: 08-11-2004


Message 104 of 180 (313152)
05-18-2006 9:56 AM
Reply to: Message 91 by simple
05-17-2006 3:18 PM


The grave yards are full of people who 'will have not tasted death' yet.
How do you explain the following
quote:
Hebrews 10:37 - For in just a very little while, He who is coming will come and will not delay.
James 5:7-9 - Be patient, then, brothers, until the Lord's coming. . . You too, be patient and stand firm, because the Lord's coming is near.
1 Peter 1:20 - He was chosen before the creation of the world, but was revealed in these last times for your sake.
1 Peter 4:7 - The end of all things is near.
Rev. 22:20 - Surely I come quickly.
Those indicate that the writers thought they would see the endtimes in their lifetimes. Didn't happen then.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 91 by simple, posted 05-17-2006 3:18 PM simple has replied

Replies to this message:
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 Message 112 by simple, posted 05-18-2006 9:00 PM ramoss has replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1445 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 105 of 180 (313263)
05-18-2006 5:08 PM
Reply to: Message 104 by ramoss
05-18-2006 9:56 AM


quote:
The grave yards are full of people who 'will have not tasted death' yet.
Again you have that wrong. The actual words are:
Mat 16:28 Verily I say unto you, There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom.
Mar 9:1 And he said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That there be some of them that stand here, which shall not taste of death, till they have seen the kingdom of God come with power.
Luk 9:27 But I tell you of a truth, there be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the kingdom of God.
The Kingdom of God came, they saw it. They saw "the Son of man coming in His kingdom" both on the Mount of Transfiguration and at Pentecost and thereafter. He rules His Kingdom today. It has been in the world since Pentecost.
How do you explain the following
quote:
Hebrews 10:37 - For in just a very little while, He who is coming will come and will not delay.
James 5:7-9 - Be patient, then, brothers, until the Lord's coming. . . You too, be patient and stand firm, because the Lord's coming is near.
1 Peter 1:20 - He was chosen before the creation of the world, but was revealed in these last times for your sake.
1 Peter 4:7 - The end of all things is near.
Rev. 22:20 - Surely I come quickly.
The terms are not specific. They thought "near" meant nearer than in fact it was, but it was nevertheless near then and it is even nearer now. These statements keep us in a state of preparedness. That's the point.
Those indicate that the writers thought they would see the endtimes in their lifetimes. Didn't happen then.
Yes they did think that. They misunderstood how near "near" is. So it simply means it is yet to happen.

This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
 Message 106 by Coragyps, posted 05-18-2006 5:31 PM Faith has replied

  
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