Charismatic Chaos

I have no desire to meet the loathsome "god" that Faith worships.

Interesting that you use the word "corporate" instead of "communal". Is calculus less important if you learn it from George instead of Jim?

What about the God (pick one) from the OT? What about Jesus Father? What about Jesus Himself? Would you be eager to meet Him or would you wave Him off and say that you were doing just fine?I've been listening to Bart Campolo talk about how his Theology changed time and again as he struggled to adjust his beliefs to the God whom he thought he understood. Finally, he just threw the whole concept away...but he does not call himself an atheist because he feels that it sets him up as an anti theist...sometghing he does not desire to be portrayed as. Hence, he is a Humanist Chaplain. Edited by Thugpreacha, : No reason given.

It bothers me because it suggests that God is not necessary. It's like replacing God with yourself. And I can't understand how someone can claim to be a believer when they only abstractly (and historically) believe in an unknown God. Paul himself addresses this issue in And many people ridicule the idea of god simply and solely due to no objective evidence on which to hang their hat. The fact is that we cannot objectively verify every concept proposed philosophically and theologically to humanity. Human-Centric does not work when attempting to describe and define God. Thus... That last bit was sorta word salad, but you likely made a punctuation error. To refocus, my question is how you define what a believer is? To me, a believer can actually talk with God alone in a room without concern that they are mentally deranged. They feel comfortable talking..praying...and above all listening for some feedback. And we believe though cannot objectively prove that we hear from Him. I won't even bother trying to explain that. You are proud of that, aren't you! It validates the rationality of your choice of beliefs and at the same time invalidates Biblical Christianity as a joke. (in your mind) But you paint with a broad brush. So again, what does it mean to you to believe and yet not dare to relate to the invisible presence in the room? Are you too adoring of logic, reason, and perceived reality?

Exactly, just as you never explain how they can know they are talking with God. Yet EVERY God or god ever described is described as human centric. They are all God(s) or god(s) in human form with human characteristics. No Phat, I am not proud of reality. It is simply another fact. Yet another example of you misrepresenting reality. It is not a matter of what I dare, it is simply acknowledging that no one has ever explained how it might be possible to relate to the creator of that is, seen and unseen. How is it replacing God with myself? Have I ever claimed to be God? Does not the Bible over and over say that it is humans that need to do? Who built and filled the graineries?

That's a good point but it still leaves me puzzled about your apparent definition of belief. Just because logic tells you that you are talking to yourself rather than with God, why not do it anyway? You may be surprised how far belief can take you. Or do you believe more in the idea of what *we* are charged to do and be and not on what God can do for us? (I think I hit that nail on the head) So why not take a leap of faith and believe in God's power rather than our responsibility? I'm not dismissing responsibility but communion with omnipotence sure helps. I cherish my realationship...even if critics say it is all in my imagination. I think they just dont understand it. You claim that you believe that God relates to everybody on equal terms, but Im not convinced. Im not so special nor are you so dense.

And yet ...You keep claiming something Phat but never present any support or evidence for the claim. Because the Bible repeatedly says that it is our responsibility.There is evidence of humans doing stuff but no evidence of God doing stuff.It really is that simple. We are charged to be stewards of the Earth and all its inhabitants.

Out of curiosity jar are you a deist or a theist?

LOLI'm an an Episcopalian.Edited by jar, : applin spallin

Let's hold him to that, Greg. Here is one of their slogan cards: Who wrote the Psalms? Have you ever read the Bible, jar? Your own church tells you to do the following:

quote:

---

Turn: Pause, listen and choose to follow Jesus
Learn: Reflect on Scripture each day, especially on Jesus’ life & teachings
Pray: Dwell intentionally with God each day
Worship: Gather in community weekly to thank, praise, & dwell with God
Bless: Share faith and unselfishly give and serve
Go: Cross boundaries listen deeply, & live like Jesus
Rest: Receive the gift of God’s Grace, peace, & restoration

---

You ask me how would I know its God? Or How would I know it is Jesus?Are not the very Psalms themselves an explanation of how one lyricist relates to this God? This Creator of all seen and unseen?Edited by Thugpreacha, : No reason given.Edited by Thugpreacha, : trying to fix broken quote. Seems this cloud server does not allow thatEdited by Thugpreacha, : No reason given.

Fortunately an Episcopalian does not have to check his brain at the door and in general they also know how to read.You could learn from that.Have I ever mentioned Jesus teachings?Have I ever suggested following what Jesus said we should do?Have I ever mentioned the fact the one of the purposes of the BCP is to bring worship into the house beyond some weekly event and make it part of the daily life?Learn to think Phat.Slogan cards are for the little minds.

You said this. So I asked if you were a deist or a theist, and you simply said: I'm an Anglican and we both know that there is a wide variety of beliefs within our denomination. It seems to me that with your first statement it sounds as if you feel that God has simply left us to run the show and that there is now no connection between God and this world. Do you believe that there is a Holy Spirit as in the still small voice of God? Just curious.

I don't see anyway to ever know if God is active in the world or not. It's very possible that God could influence a doctor to do one more test or try one more thing that results in a life saved or that God could effect the way things happened but even if that happened it would not be evidence of God doing anything. At best it could be called unknown or inexplicable or coincidence or surprising. Again, I see absolutely no way to take that beyond some personal belief not founded on any evidence or to determine who that small voice might be other than testing the content against logic, reason and reality. In that case the actual source of the voice is irrelevant.We can all have our personal beliefs but that is all that they are and so beliefs are pretty much irrelevant as well.

What if I make you the same offer? You can meet a random person; he might be a billionaire philanthropist who adopts you - or a serial killer, or a whiny little loser. Would you jump at the chance of meeting him? There are plenty of people in the world who are as "nice" as Jesus. I don't have any need to meet every one of them.

OK, but I'm asking what it is that you believe.