Register | Sign In


Understanding through Discussion


EvC Forum active members: 50 (9179 total)
2 online now:
Newest Member: Jorge Parker
Post Volume: Total: 918,208 Year: 5,465/9,624 Month: 490/323 Week: 130/204 Day: 4/26 Hour: 0/0


Thread  Details

Email This Thread
Newer Topic | Older Topic
  
Author Topic:   Charismatic Chaos
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 9362
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 2.6


Message 361 of 531 (871411)
02-02-2020 12:17 PM
Reply to: Message 359 by Phat
02-02-2020 3:45 AM


Re: Think Phat, think!
I suppose when the economy does go to shit, you and your ilk will blame the "socialists". You will completely exonerate donnie, the conservatives corporations and the wealthy. They will all be waiting for the handout they will be giving themselves.

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts
"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.
If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 359 by Phat, posted 02-02-2020 3:45 AM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 365 by Phat, posted 02-02-2020 2:02 PM Theodoric has not replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 525 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 362 of 531 (871415)
02-02-2020 1:18 PM
Reply to: Message 354 by Phat
02-01-2020 3:17 PM


Re: Tit For Tat starring ringo and phat.
Phat writes:
Oh so its *my* version now, is it?
Yes, *your* version, just like the US is *your* country.
Phat writes:
ringo writes:
other gods: Aten, Baal, Cthulu, Dagon... Zeus
Unlikely but hypothetically possible.
They're every bit as likely as your God.
Phat writes:
For now, aliens are simply unevidenced and unexplained.
They're more evidenced than your God. We know that life exists. And mathematically, it's almost inevitable that some of it is more "advanced" than we are. The only part that's unexplained is how they could have got here.
Phat writes:
I consider many of such sightings demonic, but that is my own subjective conclusion.
Now that is crazy.
Phat writes:
ringo writes:
mental illness
entirely possible on an individual level.
We're a social species. Mass hysteria exists. Wikipedia
Phat writes:
In my mind, you and jar both suppressed belief because you were taught to only have evidence of supportable belief.
Why do you have that in your mind when I've told you so many times that it isn't true? I told you only yesterday that my father's beliefs were similar to yours. That's what I was taught.

"I'm Fallen and I can't get up!"

This message is a reply to:
 Message 354 by Phat, posted 02-01-2020 3:17 PM Phat has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 363 by Theodoric, posted 02-02-2020 1:55 PM ringo has replied

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 9362
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 2.6


Message 363 of 531 (871420)
02-02-2020 1:55 PM
Reply to: Message 362 by ringo
02-02-2020 1:18 PM


Re: Tit For Tat starring ringo and phat.
Why is it that the nutball fundies always need to claim that nonbelievers are suppressing belief or are mad at their god?
Many non-believers have never had a belief in a god. How can we be suppressing something that never was. And why the hell would I be mad at some entity that does not exist. Then Phat will turn it all around and say he is being oppressed.
All a bunch of freakin' nutballs.

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts
"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.
If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 362 by ringo, posted 02-02-2020 1:18 PM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 364 by ringo, posted 02-02-2020 1:59 PM Theodoric has replied
 Message 368 by Phat, posted 02-02-2020 2:18 PM Theodoric has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 525 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


(3)
Message 364 of 531 (871422)
02-02-2020 1:59 PM
Reply to: Message 363 by Theodoric
02-02-2020 1:55 PM


Re: Tit For Tat starring ringo and phat.
Theodoric writes:
And why the hell would I be mad at some entity that does not exist.
I'd be mad at the leprechauns if they existed - keeping the price of gold artificially high, little bastards.

"I'm Fallen and I can't get up!"

This message is a reply to:
 Message 363 by Theodoric, posted 02-02-2020 1:55 PM Theodoric has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 366 by Theodoric, posted 02-02-2020 2:03 PM ringo has seen this message but not replied
 Message 367 by Phat, posted 02-02-2020 2:15 PM ringo has replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18450
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.0


Message 365 of 531 (871424)
02-02-2020 2:02 PM
Reply to: Message 361 by Theodoric
02-02-2020 12:17 PM


An Economic Collapse In Light Of Religion vs Secularism
Theo writes:
I suppose when the economy does go to shit, you and your ilk will blame the "socialists". You will completely exonerate Donnie, the conservatives corporations and the wealthy. They will all be waiting for the handout they will be giving themselves.
Not at all. In fact, I think that Donald should have been impeached or at the very least fully exposed. The Republicans disagreed and sought to move on. I saw that coming for a few weeks now. As I have said before (and try to represent) I am more of a moderate.
In light of this topic, "Charismatic Chaos" I acknowledge the sociological tension between religion and secular goals.
As for the economy, the reason that I focus on it so much is because if it does tank, it will bring out the worst--and the best of human nature, the survival of the fittest, and the so-called empathy that so many of us believe to be a necessary human trait.
And at that point it won't do any good to blame anyone. In order to survive and come out of such an event, our division and bickering as a nation will have to cease or we will find ourselves drowning while having our hands around the neck of our adversaries and ideological opposites.

The only way I know to drive out evil from the country is by the constructive method of filling it with good.Calvin Coolidge
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
As the fear of God is the beginning of wisdom, so the denial of God is the height of foolishness.-RC Sproul, Essential Truths of the Christian Faith

- You can safely assume that you've created God in your own image when it turns out that God hates all the same people you do.
Anne Lamott
Believe those who are seeking the truth. Doubt those who find it.~Andre Gide

This message is a reply to:
 Message 361 by Theodoric, posted 02-02-2020 12:17 PM Theodoric has not replied

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 9362
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 2.6


(5)
Message 366 of 531 (871425)
02-02-2020 2:03 PM
Reply to: Message 364 by ringo
02-02-2020 1:59 PM


Leprechauns
I have a friend that is a "ghost hunter"(don't get me started). I asked him how does he know the anomalies are ghosts and not leprechauns. With a straight face he answered "That's stupid, leprechauns don't exist."
I just walked away.

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts
"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.
If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 364 by ringo, posted 02-02-2020 1:59 PM ringo has seen this message but not replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18450
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.0


Message 367 of 531 (871426)
02-02-2020 2:15 PM
Reply to: Message 364 by ringo
02-02-2020 1:59 PM


Re: Tit For Tat starring ringo and phat.
ringo writes:
I'd be mad at the leprechauns if they existed - keeping the price of gold artificially high, little bastards.
Hard to tell what will happen with Gold. Though a counter-cyclical investment for hard times, nobody would want to be the guy holding a lot of gold when guns are clearly outnumbering it bar for bar.
Now...concerning "other gods(while we are on the topic of gold)
ringo writes:
They're every bit as likely as your God.
See, this is why we will never agree. A God is "likely" only if that god is useful to you. Since you rely on "evidence" rather than need, then, of course, all of the gods are equally likely for you.
ringo writes:
We're a social species. Mass hysteria exists.
Indeed it does. In bringing up a Economic Collapse I focus on such an event because it confronts my fears, validates the likelihood of an end-times scenario, and challenges all of humanity to love rather than hate. This will be no easy task and the love of many will grow cold, be they secular humanists or be they religious. If such a scenario occurred, there would be mass hysteria. As Tangle might say, the nutters will come out of the woodwork. IOf course, the day Trump got elected many of them already emerged.
I told you only yesterday that my father's beliefs were similar to yours. That's what I was taught.
And you became a born again evidentialist...I get the picture.
Apply your evidence to Climate Change+Economic Collapse Likelihood+Human Nature. What do you see in the next 100 years?

The only way I know to drive out evil from the country is by the constructive method of filling it with good.Calvin Coolidge
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
As the fear of God is the beginning of wisdom, so the denial of God is the height of foolishness.-RC Sproul, Essential Truths of the Christian Faith

- You can safely assume that you've created God in your own image when it turns out that God hates all the same people you do.
Anne Lamott
Believe those who are seeking the truth. Doubt those who find it.~Andre Gide

This message is a reply to:
 Message 364 by ringo, posted 02-02-2020 1:59 PM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 369 by jar, posted 02-02-2020 2:33 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied
 Message 370 by ringo, posted 02-02-2020 2:36 PM Phat has not replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18450
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.0


Message 368 of 531 (871427)
02-02-2020 2:18 PM
Reply to: Message 363 by Theodoric
02-02-2020 1:55 PM


Re: Tit For Tat starring ringo and phat.
Then Phat will turn it all around and say he is being oppressed.
Perhaps I am just angry at no longer being favored.

The only way I know to drive out evil from the country is by the constructive method of filling it with good.Calvin Coolidge
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
As the fear of God is the beginning of wisdom, so the denial of God is the height of foolishness.-RC Sproul, Essential Truths of the Christian Faith

- You can safely assume that you've created God in your own image when it turns out that God hates all the same people you do.
Anne Lamott
Believe those who are seeking the truth. Doubt those who find it.~Andre Gide

This message is a reply to:
 Message 363 by Theodoric, posted 02-02-2020 1:55 PM Theodoric has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 371 by Theodoric, posted 02-02-2020 2:44 PM Phat has replied

  
jar
Member
Posts: 34136
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 3.3


Message 369 of 531 (871428)
02-02-2020 2:33 PM
Reply to: Message 367 by Phat
02-02-2020 2:15 PM


God can only exist as long as there is a believer!
Phat writes:
A God is "likely" only if that god is useful to you.
Which is why Gods are all created by believers.

My Sister's Website: Rose Hill StudiosMy Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 367 by Phat, posted 02-02-2020 2:15 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 525 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


(1)
Message 370 of 531 (871429)
02-02-2020 2:36 PM
Reply to: Message 367 by Phat
02-02-2020 2:15 PM


Re: Tit For Tat starring ringo and phat.
Phat writes:
... nobody would want to be the guy holding a lot of gold when guns are clearly outnumbering it bar for bar.
Many years ago (and many end-of-the-world scenarios ago) somebody said that in the future you would need a shotgun, a bicycle, canned sardines and gold coins.
Phat writes:
A God is "likely" only if that god is useful to you.
Nonsense. The likelihood of anything has nothing whatsoever to do with its usefulness, either real or imagined.
Phat writes:
Since you rely on "evidence" rather than need...
What on earth has need got to do with it?
Phat writes:
If such a scenario occurred, there would be mass hysteria.
There IS mass hysteria. There always HAS BEEN mass hysteria. It has nothing to do with your silly apocalyptic scenarios.
I'm saying that your "experiences" of god, your whole religion, might well be a form of mass hysteria.
Phat writes:
And you became a born again evidentialist...I get the picture.
No. You really don't.
Phat writes:
Apply your evidence to Climate Change+Economic Collapse Likelihood+Human Nature. What do you see in the next 100 years?
Economies collapse on a pretty regular basis. It's never the end of the world.
Climate change won't be the end of the world either. Where I live will likely improve - but if we become a tropical paradise we'll have the damn tourists.
And human nature is not what you portray.

"I'm Fallen and I can't get up!"

This message is a reply to:
 Message 367 by Phat, posted 02-02-2020 2:15 PM Phat has not replied

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 9362
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 2.6


Message 371 of 531 (871430)
02-02-2020 2:44 PM
Reply to: Message 368 by Phat
02-02-2020 2:18 PM


Re: Tit For Tat starring ringo and phat.
There is that white privilege again.

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts
"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.
If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 368 by Phat, posted 02-02-2020 2:18 PM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 372 by Phat, posted 02-03-2020 7:36 AM Theodoric has replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18450
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.0


Message 372 of 531 (871443)
02-03-2020 7:36 AM
Reply to: Message 371 by Theodoric
02-02-2020 2:44 PM


Whining for A Free pass
There is that white privilege again.
What do you want me to do? Roll over and simply allow the entire lane of traffic to pass me by as I politely let them play catchup?
Look, I'm well aware that my ancestors were very callous and exploitive of indigenous cultures. I am also aware that the Populists represent one of the attempts to maintain "White Privilege" in the interests of "Making America Great Again."
I am aware that China is poised to shoot past the US Economy and that a global transfer of wealth will likely happen. The 1% are colorblind...all they see is green, and they will ride the wave up with the other emerging cultures.
The majority of the aging middle-class population will slowly lose their status, money, and power. Critics say that they enjoyed an artificial construct for many decades and even centuries. But my question still stands. As an aging white male who only wants to retire in some degree of comfort, is it too much to ask that the traffic that is passing me give me a break and let me in line too?

The only way I know to drive out evil from the country is by the constructive method of filling it with good.Calvin Coolidge
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
As the fear of God is the beginning of wisdom, so the denial of God is the height of foolishness.-RC Sproul, Essential Truths of the Christian Faith

- You can safely assume that you've created God in your own image when it turns out that God hates all the same people you do.
Anne Lamott
Believe those who are seeking the truth. Doubt those who find it.~Andre Gide

This message is a reply to:
 Message 371 by Theodoric, posted 02-02-2020 2:44 PM Theodoric has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 373 by Theodoric, posted 02-03-2020 7:52 AM Phat has not replied
 Message 374 by Faith, posted 02-03-2020 8:04 AM Phat has replied
 Message 375 by Theodoric, posted 02-03-2020 8:10 AM Phat has not replied

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 9362
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 2.6


Message 373 of 531 (871444)
02-03-2020 7:52 AM
Reply to: Message 372 by Phat
02-03-2020 7:36 AM


Re: Whining for A Free pass
Acknowledge it and quit blaming others for your financial woes. Minorities, immigrants, women and the handicapped are not responsible for your high taxes. They are not responsible for the fact your employer pays poor wages or benefits. Learn who is responsible for the huge economic inequity in this country. Become more aware. It sure is hell ain't brown people. Search the internet see if anyone has actually addressed the issue of how to combat your own white privilege. Oh gee here are some.
7 Ways White People Can Combat Their Privilege
White privilege, and what we’re supposed to do about it - Rage Against The Minivan

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts
"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.
If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 372 by Phat, posted 02-03-2020 7:36 AM Phat has not replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1557 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 374 of 531 (871445)
02-03-2020 8:04 AM
Reply to: Message 372 by Phat
02-03-2020 7:36 AM


Re: Whining for A Free pass
Look, I'm well aware that my ancestors were very callous and exploitive of indigenous cultures. I am also aware that the Populists represent one of the attempts to maintain "White Privilege" in the interests of "Making America Great Again.
No you are not "aware" that, Phat, it's a big fat lle that you get from hanging around EvC too muich. If you're going to hang out here you need to at least be listening to the other side of it. MAGA has absolutely nothing to do with race. Trump has done more for ALL races than Obama ever did. This is not an administration committed to "white privilege" which is nothing but another Leftist smear. Your mind is going to be poisoned completely if you continue to listen to people here.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 372 by Phat, posted 02-03-2020 7:36 AM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 376 by Theodoric, posted 02-03-2020 11:32 AM Faith has not replied
 Message 377 by Phat, posted 02-03-2020 2:07 PM Faith has replied
 Message 384 by Hyroglyphx, posted 02-04-2020 12:13 AM Faith has replied

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 9362
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 2.6


(1)
Message 375 of 531 (871446)
02-03-2020 8:10 AM
Reply to: Message 372 by Phat
02-03-2020 7:36 AM


Re: Whining for A Free pass
Here is a basic example of your white privilege. Was your family ever not allowed to live in certain places? I don't mean because your parents could not afford to live there, but because no would rent to them or the banks would not give them a loan.
In the late 1950's and 1960's that happened to my parents. In Massachusetts and Pennsylvania, there were whole towns where they could not rent. All because we had a hispanic last name. Of course these towns had the good school districts. in 1966 we got lucky and a landlord rented to us in one of the better towns. We rented that house for 12 years and though my parents tried to buy a house in that town, no bank would give them a mortgage. Surprisingly, they could get a mortgage for a similar amount in a close by city(in a struggling school district).
That ever happen to you and your family. My father did not even look Puerto Rican. He was very light skinned. My mother was not Puerto Rican. Yet because of his name we were discriminated against repeatedly. We were the lucky ones. Many of my relatives that were darker skinned or black had to fight even harder to rise above the discrimination thrown at them, some never have.
If you really want to stop whining, educate yourself. Learn what white privilege is and what it is not.
The majority of the aging middle-class population will slowly lose their status, money, and power.
Only if we let the billionaire class make it happen. They are the ones to blame if it does happen.

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts
"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.
If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 372 by Phat, posted 02-03-2020 7:36 AM Phat has not replied

  
Newer Topic | Older Topic
Jump to:


Copyright 2001-2023 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved

™ Version 4.2
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2024