Charismatic Chaos

Re: Religion Can Be A Drug

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Thanks for the exchange.
Hope things are well ... I cannot even bring myself towards watching the video ... po' lil' bugga. We all do, Phat ...We all do.One Love

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I'm not here to mock or condemn what you believe, tho my intentions are no less than to tickle your thinker.
If those in first century CE had known what these words mean ... 'I want and desire mercy, not sacrifice'
They surely would not have condemned the innocent; why trust what I say when you can learn for yourself?
Think for yourself.Mercy Trumps Judgement,
Love Weary

Thanks for the exchange Hyro ...
Hope things are good with you. I thought I was harsh! Deep healing breaths hyro ... Whooo saaahlol - I feel you though ... it isn't easy to sit back and watch. It doesn't seem right either.How people think they can serve, both, the Father and Mammon remains a mystery to me.One LoveEdited by Bailey, : sp.

Thanks for the exchange.
Hope things are well ... This is not to imply that I am unable to identify with the rigors of Neo-Secular Christianity, as well as other exclusive membership groups, yet ...It is a fact, perhaps to lil' known, that Indigenous religions indeed summate the majority of the worlds religions. Additionally, there are few indigenous languages which even employ a word equivalent to 'religion', and so, it may prove conclusively unnatural to speak of 'religion' with reference to various cultures. Now, when we allow religions to be thought of as particular ways of seeing and particular ways of living in the world, it becomes quite easy to find religion in the ordinary, everyday lives of many people who do not use the word.In fact, it's actually unusual for adherents of any tradition to separate their religious beliefs and practices from their everyday lives. It may also be worth noting that religions are not all about seemingly strange ideas and peculiar practices, although these are the things that tend to stand out when we encounter foreign conceptualizations and ideologies. Imho, there is nothing wrong with noticing 'stange things' within a world belief system, as long as we also pay attention to the more everyday ways in which people speak of what makes their lives meaningful and interesting.One LoveEdited by Bailey, : sp.Edited by Bailey, : sp.

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I'm not here to mock or condemn what you believe, tho my intentions are no less than to tickle your thinker.
If those in first century CE had known what these words mean ... 'I want and desire mercy, not sacrifice'
They surely would not have condemned the innocent; why trust what I say when you can learn for yourself?
Think for yourself.Mercy Trumps Judgement,
Love Weary

Thanks for the exchange Phage0070 ...
Hope things are well in your camp. lol - please, no need to muddy these waters ol' friend!!Have you tried your hand at explaining to an Imperial christian that Yeshua was not meant to be a Levitical animal sacrifice lately?Them waters seem, indeed, quite murky already ...One LoveEdited by Bailey, : sp.Edited by Bailey, : gr.

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I'm not here to mock or condemn what you believe, tho my intentions are no less than to tickle your thinker.
If those in first century CE had known what these words mean ... 'I want and desire mercy, not sacrifice'
They surely would not have condemned the innocent; why trust what I say when you can learn for yourself?
Think for yourself.Mercy Trumps Judgement,
Love Weary

Thans for the exchange Phage ...
Hope thinga are well with you. Yes, I suppose I've missed your point - lolMine was that various traditions and world belief systems sustain their individual confusions without the aide of outside assistance.One Love

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I'm not here to mock or condemn what you believe, tho my intentions are no less than to tickle your thinker.
If those in first century CE had known what these words mean ... 'I want and desire mercy, not sacrifice'
They surely would not have condemned the innocent; why trust what I say when you can learn for yourself?
Think for yourself.Mercy Trumps Judgement,
Love Weary

Thanks for the exchange onifre ...
Hope things are well with you ... I would have to agree. If the laws of a culture do not offer providence within even the community that they have been established in, such a tradition seems useless indeed. In another thread, around here somewhere, I attempted to mention something of that nature to jaywill in a round about way ...

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... there is the sense that this is accomplished by one shifting the focus of their religious attention from the community as the primary beneficiary of the Father's justice in this life, who may be rewarded with shalom, peace and prosperity, to the individual, who will receive his or her just reward in an afterlife.

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When there is too much worried about tomorrow, it seems today will always wind up neglected.Laws and customs do well when applied to the needs of the community.Not so much when applied to a fairytale or a Monarchy.One Love

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I'm not here to mock or condemn what you believe, tho my intentions are no less than to tickle your thinker.
If those in first century CE had known what these words mean ... 'I want and desire mercy, not sacrifice'
They surely would not have condemned the innocent; why trust what I say when you can learn for yourself?
Think for yourself.Mercy Trumps Judgement,
Love Weary

Thanks for the time Phage.
Hope all is well ... lol - I really don't like to disappoint at all, but I'm with you on that one !!However, the same could be stated regarding most of what's learned.Scientific facts are overturned as often as theological doctrines are.It seems nobody may know their ass from a hole in the ground.One LoveEdited by Bailey, : sp.

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I'm not here to mock or condemn what you believe, tho my intentions are no less than to tickle your thinker.
If those in first century CE had known what these words mean ... 'I want and desire mercy, not sacrifice'
They surely would not have condemned the innocent; why trust what I say when you can learn for yourself?
Think for yourself.Mercy Trumps Judgement,
Love Weary

Thanks for the time Phage ...
Hope things are good for you. I agree, which brings us back to what I said in Message 77 ...

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It seems nobody may know their ass from a hole in the ground.

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Any time you hear somebody say, 'And that's a fact, jack!', you may have found a con - lolOne Love

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I'm not here to mock or condemn what you believe, tho my intentions are no less than to tickle your thinker.
If those in first century CE had known what these words mean ... 'I want and desire mercy, not sacrifice'
They surely would not have condemned the innocent; why trust what I say when you can learn for yourself?
Think for yourself.Mercy Trumps Judgement,
Love Weary

Thanks for the exchange oni ...
Didjoo board that plane yet?? I'm there for ya ol' bud ... but I can't lend any money now and my pick up's in the shop, so don't ask.lol - just kiddin' ... about the money, anyway. Good question.Although the technical definition may allow for degrees of subjectivity, I would say that providence for cultural laws implies a certain foresight regarding the preparation of care, direction and guardianship of a communities vested interest within that specific culture. The vested interest, I may say, would be the overall well being of the community itself. An example of a lack of providence within the laws of a tradition may be the lack of foresight on behalf of various theologians, as I'll briefly mention below, who have perhaps carelessly directed the concerns of an individual before that of the community.What we wind up with, it seems, is a tribe of chiefs protecting only each other, who can agree on very little and no injuns to give a shit either way ... Imho, if abuse and manipulation have found their way into laws or traditions, providence may yet to have truly entered into their initial equation.A lil' grandiose ... probably. I'm feel ya ... now, I'm not trying to split hairs with anyone in this instance and the issue I have applies more freely to religious types who do wield an 'afterlife' (whatever that is supposed to mean). I try not to quote mine too frequently, as statements can often become taken out of their original context.It seems the whole conceptualization of 'after', within this context, is essentially unfounded by all technicality. This trend appears to be produced by nullifying vasts swaths of scripture texts and allowing for the formation of fairytales accordingly; something theologians, and others, actually appear fairly decent at. The Roman scripture text collection that I often draw from describes a 'continuous life', as opposed to a 'next' life that is after something else.So we are on the level, I'm going to insert the quote I made earlier to jaywill, in its entirety, from Re: broods o' vipers & venomous serpents (Message 215 of thread If the Bible is metaphorical then perhaps so is the God of the Bible in forum Bible Study) ...

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Uncle Paul's semi-narcissistic, while mildly apocalyptic, views may appear to salvage a Prophetic belief in the Father's power and justice, yet, there is the sense that this is accomplished by one shifting the focus of their religious attention from the community as the primary beneficiary of the Father's justice in this life, who may be rewarded with shalom, peace and prosperity, to the individual, who will receive his or her just reward in an afterlife. That does not seem to be a tradition that everyone can identify with and I, for one, am often unable to find practicality in Pauline dogmas and theology.

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Another issue may be that any belief in an 'afterlife' must, first, require a priori belief in the final culmination of one's Life. Now, that doesn't seem like a problem for many traditions, yet the practitioners of 'christianity' are, by the standard of the tradition, supposed to be 're-born' or, as they say, 'born-again'. The thing is, supposing such faith becomes established, within many traditions, this 'death' is supposed to occur while the practitioner is still alive, and so, the definitions of death and dying should, by all rights, become heterodox to the secular understanding of the terms.Subsequently, this 'after-whatever' should take on a fairly meaningless connotation altogether. Yet, in practice, many within the variant sects of christianity nullify the scriptural teaching of Continuous Life, opting for the more popular 'death', and then 'afterlife', which take root within a secular understanding or other various traditions, and so, they behave according to that mix. In the booklet named after Matisyahu, there is a depiction of Yeshua stating ...'Pursue the Kingdom of the Father and righteousness above all else, and all [other] things will be given to you as well.'The Kingdom of the Father is the one we are living in, scripturally speaking, and so, many traditions continue to nullify the Prophets' words by basing their decisions in this life in regards to a miniscule chance that they may wind up, far, far away from all of us filthy heathens, in some arbitrary ghost heaven where aesthetic stoic celibates must sit around and judge each other all day long, seeing as they have been cut off from the land of the living apparently.lol - I'll stop here with that ... sorry bro (frustration rears it's phugly head).My underlying point to jaywill was that the force of each individual's actions directly impact the community at large; and not always in a beneficial way. Certain traditions do not seem at all focused, much less concerned, with what laws they may uphold in order to benefit any communities within this life.While both the individual and the community may, or may not, benefit from a certain standard, it seems, ultimately, that the responsibilities which each individual chooses to perform, or otherwise, will summate any benefit towards the community. Perhaps it is even the motivating impulse behind an individual's opinion that determine the actions they may perform, which will ultimately effect the community either positively or negatively.This is why I feel that the motivating impulse behind each individual's individual decision[s] should be grounded in what is best for the community, as opposed to the individual themselves. Of course, many people could care less about their community, providing their individual needs are primarily addressed. This dynamic can obviously apply quite easily to those who do not practice traditional religious belief systems, as well. Although our understanding seems to differ, that makes two of us ...Well, there are more than two of us, but that's a given - lol While I would quickly agree that the opinion of a community, as well as the individuals' opinions, play an interpretative role, there is the obvious sense that opinions place second to determinations. Imho, the laws and standards of a given community or culture may do well to address a certain providence, or foresight, before subsequent determinations are made from the various opinions associated with subjective interpretation.Although some of the post is, perhaps, not completely on topic, thanks for the excange nonetheless. Your posts are often a breath of fresh air.One LoveEdited by Bailey, : sp.

Hi Phatboy ...
Hope all is well. Oh ye, of lil' faith. How dare you take the name of Mr. Jones in vain ...You should be ashamed. One Love

Thank you for the exchange.
Hope things are well ...Phatboy - please acknowledge that I was just clownin' with ya in Message 97 (peek there for 'lol' and note - I realize it wasn't that funny ... if at all!). I tend to agree with a perspective in this light. Every society has a verbal cultural heritage - or an ‘inventory of lore’, if you will, which has been handed down from one generation to another. Considering animistic substance is not typically codified into written documents, but transmitted inter-generationally through verbal means, the study of a specific culture's verbal heritage may lend a great deal of understanding towards their specific beliefs and such.Also, while we know most all religious people employ certain sacred narratives, which we refer to as myths, not everybody regards that these narratives often, at least in part, promote an explanation concerning how things have become the way they are, and so, such myths indeed relate intimately to a culture's worldview explaining, integrating, validating, and sanctioning its belief system. Now, as proverbs and legends describe wisdom and phenomenal exploits ‘in ordinary, profane time’, these myths often portray the work of spiritual power[s] by arranging the existing order ‘in primordial, sacred time’.Additionally, one may come to understand that while creation myths, such as that of the Haudenosaunee for instance, often depict the origin and destiny of the world - of humankind itself, one will also find National myths, such as that of the tribes of Yuhdea, which tend to describe how various tribes and nations came into being, as well as their corresponding depictions of humankinds' origins and destinies. It seems that the historicity of myths need not be accepted; nevertheless, myths presently being told in animistic contexts reveal specific cultural motifs currently held by those with tribal origins.As a matter of fact, within many cases, even when the historical content of a myth changes, the cultural motifs communicated therein remain the same.For example, by studying the mythological content of modern comic books, Mircea Eliade suggests that anthropologists have learned quite a bit regarding certain American conceptions of bravery and heroism and their perceptions concerning victories of good over evil, and vice versa. Such seems the case when comparing the dichotomy of spiritual forces of good and evil, as well as those presented within the causal benefits of moral benevolence and accountability, found within the legends of Hebraic and Haudenosaunee tribes ...Although the plots change, many of the cultural motifs remain the same.One LoveEdited by Bailey, : sp.

Thanks for the exchange Phat.
Hope things are well ... lol - it does seem like a unique trait. Although, I bet certain analogies could be made by showing how various species adapt striking similarities, even while thriving in separate regions. Sure, some aspects will differ, but a bee will remain a bee, whether here or there. However, that brings up an interesting point in regards to indigenous peoples. As I said in Message 68, the majority of the worlds religions are comprised of indigenous people who share in common a certain awareness towards a higher power than themselves.Very seldom does one find an indigenous people without such an awareness and while it is true that children are highly susceptible to indoctrination, as that is what even a secular education is, it is also fairly common to find children who may not naturally identify that a presence greater than themselves is nonexistent, although such beliefs rarely seem to flourish naturally, which may expose what such faith can produce, as children are most often constantly inundated with a secular or fixed-marriage religious world belief system.In the end tho, an ontological naturalistic world view may remain as a minority belief system, perhaps bordering on unnatural, apart from indoctrination ...At least as unnatural and seemingly abnormal as Imperial christianity.It may be sort of interesting to think about. Alistair Begg ... is he that ol' Irish fella ?If so, I enjoy much of his commentary ...What lil' I've heard anyway.One Love

Thanks for the exchange Phats ...
Hope things are well with you. Ah - you are right. I took a sec to check that link you provided and he is indeed a Scotsman. I had never seen what he looked like before ...He looks much younger than I envisioned, seeing as I've only heard a few of his radio broadcasts and I had pictured this lil' irish fella all along.
Honestly, he seems quite down to earth and ordinary. Until I snuck that peek of him, he always reminded me of the granpappy I never had ...Also, I don't recall hearin' him pass the plate in the few snippets I heard from him - lolOne LoveEdited by Bailey, : sp.

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I'm not here to mock or condemn what you believe, tho my intentions are no less than to tickle your thinker.
If those in first century CE had known what these words mean ... 'I want and desire mercy, not sacrifice'
They surely would not have murdered the innocent; why trust what I say, when you can learn for yourself?
Think for yourself.Mercy Trumps Judgement,
Love Weary