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Author Topic:   Indoctrination
Blue Jay
Member (Idle past 2697 days)
Posts: 2843
From: You couldn't pronounce it with your mouthparts
Joined: 02-04-2008


Message 31 of 32 (463530)
04-17-2008 10:11 PM
Reply to: Message 30 by Granny Magda
04-17-2008 9:09 PM


Re: Indoctrination and Evolution vs Creation
Granny Magda writes:
I generally find liberal religion harder to understand than fundamentalism; at least the fundies have the comfort of certainty...
I'm a scientist (or, I will be soon--I start my doctorate in the summer)--I'm used to uncertainty and tentativity.
Granny Magda writes:
Well in that case you are officially fucked.
See what happens when you let people indoctrinate you?
Seriously, though: I've taken up a standpoint of skepticism toward anything that doesn't have definitively, objectively-verifiable effects on the physical world. But, Mormons believe in physical resurrection, so, if God created the body that I'm using right now, surely He can re-create it in the afterlife, complete with the pattern of brain functions that I refer to as my "self," right? Who knows, with scientific understanding like His, He might even be able to keep those patterns going, even after the original substrate is dead and rotting.
At least, that's what I hope. Here's me perpetuating the sub-topic I didn't want to talk about anymore. Anyway, it relates to what I'm going to say next.
Granny Magda writes:
It was recently pointed out on this forum (sorry, I forget who by) that one of the reasons why creationist are so willing to ignore or wilfully misinterpret evidence which contradicts their religious beliefs is because they already know that their beliefs are The Truth™.
I think that was teen4christ. I don't know that I buy the "wilfully misinterpreting" thing, though: I think it's usually and mostly because they have a very heavy dose of their own religion, and extremely limited exposure to other viewpoints, which leads to complete ignorance (and thus, misinformation) of other viewpoints.
I remember first being taught General Relativity a few years ago and thinking it was too hard to swallow. I was taught quite in detail, and knew a lot about it. Then, as time went on, I forgot what I had been taught and reverted to my old mindset of "how can actual phenomena be influenced by my perspective?" I was just instructed again in the subject in a physics class this last semester, and remembered why I was wrong.
The point is, when you've got a certain mindset, something new that you're taught (which you don't incorporate into your daily routine of things) just bounces off, and you (at least, I) just forget about it. Anything that disagrees with them just doesn't sink in. Like me: after this discussion, I'll go home and read the scriptures with my wife, pray and go to church on Sunday. You're not going to drill through the wood, because it's already ingrained in me. It's creepy talking about myself like this, you know.
For another example (to show that I'm not just using Freudian extrapolation of my own self-diagnosis to prove my point), some person showed up here a few weeks ago wanting to argue about human/chimpanzee genetics, and was found to be someone who had already tried to argue this subject once, then forgot the walloping he had already taken on the subject and started it up again. I don't think he did it wilfully: he did it ignorantly and stupidly.
Thanks for your input, Granny: you've been most insightful on this thread.

I'm Thylacosmilus.
Darwin loves you.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 30 by Granny Magda, posted 04-17-2008 9:09 PM Granny Magda has not replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 32 of 32 (734341)
07-28-2014 8:06 AM
Reply to: Message 4 by Granny Magda
04-03-2008 10:10 AM


Re: Indoctrination vs Education
Granny Magda writes:
If you teach your kid that something is true (true in a factual sense that is, I'm not talking about beliefs or ideals here) based on your evidence based knowledge that it is true, then that is education.
If you teach your kid that something is true based upon shoddy foundations, such as just wanting it to be true, or upon the writ of your favourite holy book, that is indoctrination.
I might add that even in regards to evidence, it should be mentioned as tentative. We once had evidence that Newtonian Physics was true. It still is, but it is not the foundation that it once served.
As far as religious stories go, they can be useful tools for teaching human foibles and as an introduction to introspection. Its not so much that God is or is not true---children should be taught the difference between beliefs and facts.
There are many teachable moment subjects in life. Take the pop psychology that says we each have in our minds and character self perception three personalities--a Parent, A Child, and an Adult. Strictly speaking, this is not a basis of sound nor total psychology, but it is a topic starter to cause someone top recognize their own behaviors and chosen expressions. Same with religious stories. They should not be taught as facts and/or ends in and of themselves but as tools---teachable moments among many.
Edited by Phat, : No reason given.

...."When I use a word,' Humpty Dumpty said in rather a scornful tone, 'it means just what I choose it to mean neither more nor less."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 4 by Granny Magda, posted 04-03-2008 10:10 AM Granny Magda has not replied

  
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