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Author | Topic: Sky Daddy Cult | |||||||||||||||||||||||
ringo Member (Idle past 412 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes:
If there's no detectable difference between communing with God and communing with humans, what's the point of (pretending you're) communing with God?
You, however, may have a different form of communion---perhaps one such as Stiles that involves only humans.
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jar Member (Idle past 394 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
Labeling Christians "spiritually lazy" and "helpless" is so close to being derisive and disdainful as to be indistinguishable from them.
Which might be valid had he done so, but he didn't. He pointed out that many Christians are "spiritually lazy" and "helpless" which is simply a reasonable observation. Their beliefs deserve pity more than anything else. Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!
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Stile Member Posts: 4295 From: Ontario, Canada Joined: |
Phat writes: Stile writes: Phat writes: perhaps one such as Stile's that involves only humans Is that how I come off? That's... unfortunate. Unfortunate? No...just unique and relative to you the individual. Am I incorrect in my assessment? Perhaps not, it depends on specifically what your assessment is When people say God is required to be spiritual.. I try to mention that spirituality of the highest experienced levels can be fully achieved by only involving humans. I do not mean to imply that my personal spirituality only involves humans.I do not mean to imply that the best levels of spirituality only involve humans and no Gods. They will for some people, and won't for others. You tend to say things as to imply that God is required for certain aspects of life.I just counter by informing you that if God is required, the requirement is not obvious and can even be ignored to obtain those same aspects of life. As shown by those who do not believe in God and yet do still fully experience those valued areas in their lives. If you happened to go around saying things that implied people must be removed from God in order to attain certain things in life... I would then inform you that this isn't true either. Many people invoke their God(s) to gain the same things in life. I try to promote a balance that works for the individual. A cursory look at the world shows that one-explanation simply doesn't explain all people's experiences.I understand that my responses to you seem one-sided... but that is more because your position is one-sided than because I'm actually advocating a certain side
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NoNukes Inactive Member |
Which might be valid had he done so, but he didn't. He pointed out that many Christians are "spiritually lazy" and "helpless" which is simply a reasonable observation. Their beliefs deserve pity more than anything else. In particular, he associated lazy and helpless Christians with the term Sky Daddy Cult. That's what I am calling a derisive title. Then he said that the title was not derisive, which does not make sense despite your attempt to help out. Edited by NoNukes, : No reason given.Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846) I have never met a man so ignorant that I couldn't learn something from him. Galileo Galilei If there is no struggle, there is no progress. Those who profess to favor freedom, and deprecate agitation, are men who want crops without plowing up the ground, they want rain without thunder and lightning. Frederick Douglass
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jar Member (Idle past 394 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
And should they not be treated with derision?
Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!
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Phat Member Posts: 18262 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.1 |
If there's no detectable difference between communing with God and communing with humans, what's the point of (pretending you're) communing with God? For one thing, Jesus advocated it. Within the context of my belief, there is no pretending. God exists despite no detection. jar writes: I can't explain how it happens. I believe that God exists and is always present.
You keep saying that but never explain how it happens or how you can know you are communicating with God. I also agree that GOD is far far beyond any human comprehension---this I cannot explain any more than I can comprehend. Could Ringo be right in that I am pretending? Yes, it may be possible that I am wrong. When I prayed with my friends family at the hospice, it was for their comfort and thus had value even if GOD did not exist. I believe, however, that He does exist and desires communion with us.|
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Phat Member Posts: 18262 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.1 |
Why?
Derision=contemptuous ridicule or mockery. Explain why we should ridicule and mock these people again? I don't see why it is charged for us to do. The scripture always told me to "bless those who curse me"....
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Tangle Member Posts: 9489 From: UK Joined: Member Rating: 4.9 |
You've just said:
God exists despite no detection I can't explain how it happens I also agree that GOD is far far beyond any human comprehension this I cannot explain any more than I can comprehend. and then you say this:
I believe, however, that He does exist and desires communion with us. This is pretty much a description of why religious belief is utter bollocks.Life, don't talk to me about life - Marvin the Paranoid Android "Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved." - Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.
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Jon Inactive Member |
Then you've gathered the intent of the passage. The use of the metaphor of babes and milk does not refer to the relationship to a Father, but instead to the spiritual growth of the church. What is your point? I quoted those passages to counter Phat's sentiments of having "never heard of God as being similar to a Father in that He expects His people to 'grow up' and not have need of Him, however." (Message 4). Growth is expected. Spiritually lazy Christians start at John 3:16 and never go anywhere else from there. Their faith is vacuous; they have started at the end and declared themselves well traveled. Jesus states repeatedly that doing good deeds is the start of salvation:
quote: quote: On the topic of John 3:16, reading the story of Nicodemus in its entirety, we see the relationship of good deeds to salvation to be as described:
quote: The folks doing good came to the light and were saved, but they were already doing good works when the light came. And then there is Matthew 25:31—46, a passage I have often cited; here salvation is given not before the doing of good deeds but after, long after.
Labeling Christians "spiritually lazy" and "helpless" is so close to being derisive and disdainful as to be indistinguishable from them. I didn't call Christians 'spiritually lazy'; I called some Christians 'spiritually lazy': because they are. JonLove your enemies!
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jar Member (Idle past 394 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
Why?
It is an attempt to help them by showing how ridiculous and destructive their belief system is. It is not the people but the beliefs and ideas that are rightfully ridiculed and mocked.Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!
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NoNukes Inactive Member |
And should they not be treated with derision? If you are so sure your own beliefs are superior, have at it.Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846) I have never met a man so ignorant that I couldn't learn something from him. Galileo Galilei If there is no struggle, there is no progress. Those who profess to favor freedom, and deprecate agitation, are men who want crops without plowing up the ground, they want rain without thunder and lightning. Frederick Douglass
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jar Member (Idle past 394 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
If you are so sure your own beliefs are superior, have at it. Too funny. Of course some of my positions (as opposed to beliefs) are superior and I also understand that the beliefs I hold that cannot be supported are equally deserving of derision. But I cannot even imagine expecting anyone to accept or agree with any of my beliefs.Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!
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ringo Member (Idle past 412 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes:
Reference, please. For one thing, Jesus advocated it. He also advocated helping the poor (and I do have references) but you routinely toss that aside as if it was secondary.
Phat writes:
Within the context of The Lord of the Rings there are walking trees. Within that context, we need to pretend that they're real or there's no point in being within that context.
Within the context of my belief, there is no pretending.
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