How do we know God is "Good"?

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Why a christian?

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Becuase christians happen to be the most easily accessible group of the people who follow this ancient text.Now get on with it: how can god be good when it performs such evil acts? After all, god is the first genocidist.

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But alas he did not kill anyone, unless your of the belief that Christ is God.

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We do not know that - after all, he's missing for what would have been his prime years as a warrior, late teens to late 20's.

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So you think raising your kids to tease others is a good thing?

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I think it utterly trivial. I'm much more worried about the being rended limb from limb bit.

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Didn't you just read what he said?
He follows Christ and the NT.

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And he's comfortable worshipping a bloodthirsty genocidist?

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He was missing? Awesome, that must mean he killed someone.
How did you figure that out?

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All I pointed out was the claim "Jesus never killed anyone" cannot be shown to be true.Aren't christians supposed to be honest, rat? You know full well I did not claim to know that Jesus killed, so why did you twist my argument that way?This message has been edited by contracycle, 11-10-2004 09:29 AM

I want gods slaughter of the male children of Egypt included in the list of atrocities as well. And Soddom and Gemorrah.

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29 At midnight the LORD struck down all the firstborn in Egypt, from the firstborn of Pharaoh, who sat on the throne, to the firstborn of the prisoner, who was in the dungeon, and the firstborn of all the livestock as well. 30 Pharaoh and all his officials and all the Egyptians got up during the night, and there was loud wailing in Egypt, for there was not a house without someone dead.

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- Exodus 12It's difficult to understand how prisoners could possibly have been complicit in the pharoahs "crimes" such as they are. Clearly, this is a form of collective punishment, the innocent butchered along with the guilty. Now how is this not what we would call today a race hate crime?

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Thats what the story is about.

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No, thats not what the story is about. The story is about gods role as national terrorist mastermind for the israelites. God is a racist, a despot and a terrorist - as are so many of his followers.

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Since I believe in God, I don't feel the kids were that badly hurt.

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So in fact you DON'T believe the bible at all.

No less than TWO obfuscatory responses, enither of which deal with the point. Plus a touch of moral slander just to make sure the unbeliever is driven off.

Actually all that is irrlevant IMO Jar.Especially in the case of the bears, we are looking at a god who is butchering children by direct orders, for showing disrepsect to his prophet.In the case of the infanticide of the Egyptian children, we are looking at a racist hate crime perpertrated directly by gods agents, or personally.The purpose of both of these stories is to demonstrate the power and wrath of the jealous god. Hence why "god-fearing" becomes a christian virtue.Theres no beating about the bush that this is psychological terorrism, and that god is perpetrating despicable crimes AND IS PROUD OF IT. And that the Israelites are proud of him for it, too. The theists just want to be exempted from taking responsibility for worshipping a terrorist god.

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If he does something bad, sure.

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Well he did, lots of them. Which have been recouinted at great length.I don't care if god thought the people of Soddom were wicked. Why does gods opinion matter? He killed them all anyway - men women children and old toothless grandparents.

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But basically - wicked sinful humans were destroyed.

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If I decide you are sinful and wicked, do I have the right to destroy you?

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I need a quote - and the name and address of each person killed, thanks.

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Why? Are you claimin Soddom was uninhabited? When god says he killed all the male children of Egypt, do you not believe Him? Are you calling god a liar, Mike?Now answer the question: If I decide you are sinful and wicked, do I have the right to kill you?This message has been edited by contracycle, 11-17-2004 11:44 AM

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No fellow servant is allowed to kill me, because of the commandment "Do no murder", and Jesus's teachings to not even get angry at someone without cause.

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I am not a servant.

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God didn't say there were any babies in Sodom. Please quote were he said there were children in Sodom, or at Noah's flood, and their names, thanks.

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waaaaahahahahahahahahaThats not worthy of any other response. Mike you're making quite a radical claim here - not only is the word of god inerrant, but also that the word of god is encyclopedic, and that anything that doesn't get a mention is by implication non-existant.In which case, where in the bible is India or China mentioned? Does that imply to you that these places do not exist?I was going to remark on the idsue dpardo raised - the bible generally uses male specific terms, as in "the men of Sodom". Now if the MEN of Sodom were wicked, does not Mikes logic imply that the WOMEN of Sodom were innocent? And yet, they were destroyed too.And I believe I can justify both the presence of women and children in Sodom biblically, mostly becuase Sodom is one of my favourite examples of the immoral god. So in the bit where the Sodomites are hassling Lot to give over the angles, he offers up his daughters to be gang-raped instead. Such a moral, god-fearing man:

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Lot went outside to meet them and shut the door behind him 7 and said, "No, my friends. Don't do this wicked thing. 8 Look, I have two daughters who have never slept with a man. Let me bring them out to you, and you can do what you like with them. But don't do anything to these men, for they have come under the protection of my roof."

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If Lot lives in Sodom, and Lot has DAUGHTERS, and also sons-in-law, then presumably other children in Sodom were not that remarkable.Religion thus demonstrates yet again how the desperate defence of the indefensible makes otherwise rational adults into blithering idiots.This message has been edited by contracycle, 11-18-2004 06:16 AMThis message has been edited by contracycle, 11-18-2004 06:17 AM

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Contracycle - you've made the logical error of thinking I've claimed that thee were no babies on earth.

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Not exactly. I have claimed that god is an evil murderous bastard. You claim that this is not true, and that god is good, becuase UNLESS I can show you a signed confession by god that he butchered children you refuse to believe it.If you are now retreating, and saying you do not have a position on babies or otherwise, my claim that god butchered whole populations and is evil stands unchallenged. Game, set, and match.

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Your claims however - about specific baby death - haven't been backed up by the bible.

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No no - I deduce baby death from the context, just like others have done. I am not advancing absurd claims to baby-less societies or anything so ridiculous.

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The fact is though, that giving God the blame for man's sins is all too easy. I also got myself into this trap, but now see that all sin and wickedness is of us.

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God is all powerful - god was not compelled to act, god CHOSE to act. I can and will hold your terrorist (and imaginary) god accountable for those crimes.So earlier I asked you if I would be justified in killing you if I decided you were sinful. You have not answered this as yet. What is it? Becuase that is the only defence you have for god. Yourt argument is basically that might makes right.Saddam hussein executed "terrorists" by putting them in pits with grenade clusters. Was Saddam rigjt to do so becuase of thiose people were sinful? Is that all murder needs to be legitimate - power and criticism?

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Isn't it remarkable how any mention of Christ is ignored in every single point I make?

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No, its not remarkable, ITS OFF TOPIC. You are emrely trying to twist away from the argument.