How do we know God is "Good"?

To who? To unbelievers like you.Our claim is what Christ said - only one is good - God.So - it is irrelevant what any human's judge God as. Why? Because our morals (humans) change every day. So they're based on nothing anyway if they are atheistic. Immoral yesterday - would be moral today. Hanging people yesterday - giving them widescreen TVs today.Lam is right - we say what God is by looking at the bible - and looking at God with us - Jesus Christ - his actions.As for your strawman fallacy concerning us;1. We say God is good - not the universe or the world - Christ overcame it - and cast out "indifferent" diseases, like he still does.Therefore - replacing our position A with your own position B, and refuting B - is strawman fallacy. Refuting B won't refute A.IF you assume our God, you also have to assume the rest - which you haven't. We believe in heaven, hell and satan - which you conveniently do not include. But that's invalid - we can argue satan and hell and heaven because we also believe in those things.You can't just attribute bad things to the God of the bible if the God of the bible talks of satan and hell, I mean - do you honestly think christians do not heed Christ's warnings about satan?If you were talking about any possible deity - fair enough - but you're not - you're targeting ours. Baggage time. Okay - you've declared position A - I admitt guilt, but now you have named "christian" - you must also assume satan. And he IS THE CHRISTIAN EXPLANATION of evil.

Why a christian? You require a Jew - you have argued against the Jewish bible, us CHRISTians follow the law of the spirit of life. Events in the OT are irrelevant to me, any evil I'll simply attribute to man.When you first use an example from the NT - then we'll talk. But let's make it fair - since we have Christ as God's example - let's submitt all OT writings to man, and submitt Christ's actions to God. Now where did Christ do any killings remind me?

Can you show me where Jesus done this. Chapter and verse please. Erm...no - you're not. What you and your chum Gilgamesh are doing - is "appealing to pity" fallacy. It goes like this;"Oh but look at the big bad nasty God - killing the children"...But since I don't believe God done this in the first place - why should I address your strawman and pity fallacies?1. I don't believe God killed any kid. THAT is my position
2. The appealing of your lil bible quote mining won't wash cos I believe all evil is attributed to man who is satan's gimp.So, are YOU going to read properly now?I believe the destroyer Christ spoke of is the worker of evil - let in by man's sin. (satan) is his other name.I believe Christ is God's example of how God is. Merciful, gracious, healing illnesses etc.Since you and Gilgo have completely ignored this fact and are still touting christians as believers ina bad God - you have proved zero, zilch, zip all = null and void argument. You can't just ignore what the guy claiming to believe, says. I hold your position to the wind - it bids for the rant with a particle of dust. I take hold of the dust -
SOLD!. A particle's worth more, it gets in my eyes but doesn't intend to.

Had any more prayers come true yet? Didn't you find your sister, when she dissapeared, if I remember rightly.

You didn't address the main part of my post. Let's see what I said;" Events in the OT are irrelevant to me "I see the bible as the inspired words of God. Events in the OT are likely exaggerated for the campfire. This doesn't mean I'm throwing the OT out - it means that I think Christ was right when he said "I came to fulfill it"./Therefore - events therein - really are irrelevant [to me] - as I follow the "law of the spirit of life" - and believe in Christ - and his words are relevant [to me]....Therefore - atrocities are not my teachings, and are unreliable because of exaggeration. The OT exaggerates but the NT isn't concerned with it. For example - fire-breathing Leviathan. The door swings both ways - if [you] believe God killed these children - then you also believe in fire-breathing Leviathan and talking snakes. We can certainly disagree with them. But if we want the wisdom in the other passages of the book, will we be throwing the baby out with the bath water? Jesus also used parables where killing happened. The naughty slave who was forgave his debt but then didn't forgive the man under him. If I use a story of killing. does that mean I am a killer? Jesus used parables and OT teachings against the Pharisees.Christ often used the OT AGAINST the OT'ers of his day.Besides this, these words; "every thought of their heart was continually wicked" preceded the flood event. You can't "invoke" child death if it doesn't even say children were killed.This message has been edited by mike the wiz, 11-11-2004 08:57 AM

I think Jar's right. But I get the feeling you are one who would like to see us believers removed, angry words and angry comments earlier in this thread. You just seem so angry at us Gilg. Fistly, remember that rule; I don't believe God killed any kid.That means, that I believe God (OT) - didn't kill anyone. Human's done the killing, then justified it by saying "God said do it". THIS is what I believe. Can you just ask next time Gilg? Each person's mind and Theology is complex. I - think the ten commandments themselves show God - and the events afterward, show man's failure.As for Jesus using OT - IMO, he "used" parables against the Pharisees - then used the OT against them. Am I wrong Jar?

This is slightly off-topic, but; Did you continue with prayer efforts afterwards? You strike me as an open-minded person who is atleast willing to give it a go. Another person on this forum who tried it was Unseul. I suggest that you ask God if it was him that answered your prayer - and for him to give you a sign if it was him, I think he might do this, because of your discretion.

Everyone of their thoughts was continually wicked.God makes it apparent to Abraham - that if there are any righteous, he will spare them.Also, the bible doesn't say any babies were killed in the flood.Yet who am I to judge God, Shraff? If he give - and takes away, can I punish him at the end of days?

Abraham was the intercessor, and asked God to spare it if there were any righteous. God agreed. There weren't any.

Can you show me where it says there were babies and children?

In the NT, it says when we are born - we are guilty of neither right or wrong. But God will have mercy on whom he will have mercy, - and not - on who he will not. But firstly, you can't just invoke baby death were there might not be any. In those days - God would have made the wicked barren. If there was a child to be spared, Abraham would have mentioned it to God - or Noah. Though I know good and evil, we are not able to judge God. What punishment could I give God anyway? Is he not the only one who is good? Yes! he is the only on who is good!

Does the shopkeeper make rules for himself?Shall he say to himself; "How dare you rob sweets". Can he rob sweets from his own shop I ask?He made rules for us, he doesn't need any for himself, because he is the only one who is good.

But Abraham asked God if there were any to be spared.Are you saying I should not trust God. but rather judge him? Am I not already guilty enough in this department?God would have foreseen these people's sin, and not granted them any babies.

No, I feel guilty for judging God, according to my own self-righteousness. As only one is good, God. How can I accuse God of wrong? God is never wrong. God always executes justice for sin. The people od Sodom and Gomorah, were destoyed because of thir sin - they done it to themselves. Likewise, in the flood - read the preceeding sentences. You will always find a reason in the preceeding sentences. I dare you to read for each event, the preceeding sentences. God at that time, chose to deal with the wicked through righteous anger and practical justice. Abraham pleaded with God, God found none good. Can you quote where it says babies died, thanks.

Job was just, and he repented. God usually repents even for what he was going to do. That's like me walking into a police station, and saying "I am sorry, I was going to rob a granny". God regretted he made man on the earth, because of his wicked evil sinful nature.The shopkeeper isn't a thief, if he eats his own sweets, - they're his sweets!Even those of you who protest against Bush - why do you waste your time? There is nothing you can do anymore. You see, jusgement means a little with this matter - but means nothing with God.