How do we know God is "Good"?

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Fistly, remember that rule; I don't believe God killed any kid.

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What about in the Flood?

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Everyone of their thoughts was continually wicked.

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Infants don't have any thoughts other than eating and pooping.How could they be "continually wicked?"

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God makes it apparent to Abraham - that if there are any righteous, he will spare them.

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Also, the bible doesn't say any babies were killed in the flood.

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"Everything that breathes" was supposed to be destroyed, right?Doesn't that include children?Are you saying that1) the Ark was filled with hundreds of thousands of babies?2) or perhaps there were only adults alive at the time? How would that make sense?

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Yet who am I to judge God, Shraff? If he give - and takes away, can I punish him at the end of days?

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Did God give you the ability to judge right from wrong?Does God follow his own rules of morality and ethics?If you are just going to say "who am I to judge God", then you are willing to excuse any atrocity or evil that the BIBLE SAYS god is responsible for.This message has been edited by schrafinator, 11-17-2004 10:03 AM

Can you show us any place on Earth, past or present, where humans live together in clans, villages, or cities, where there aren't any children?This message has been edited by schrafinator, 11-17-2004 10:07 AM

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Though I know good and evil, we are not able to judge God. What punishment could I give God anyway? Is he not the only one who is good? Yes! he is the only on who is good!

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You didn't answer fully.I asked, "Does God follow his own rules of morality and ethics?"

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Does the shopkeeper make rules for himself?
Shall he say to himself; "How dare you rob sweets". Can he rob sweets from his own shop I ask?

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Well, yeah, he can rob himself, and should makes rules for himself.If he wants to have a profitable business he will not increase his food cost by eating his own inventory without paying for it.

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He made rules for us, he doesn't need any for himself, because he is the only one who is good.

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1) Do we know the difference between good and evil?2) Are you saying that we cannot apply this knowledge to God's actions? Didn't Adam and Eve eat of the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil? Aren't we therefore "as Gods" because we have this knowledge?Doesn't that mean that we have the same knowledge of good and evil as God, and are therefore able to evaluate the goodness or evilness of his actions?This message has been edited by schrafinator, 11-17-2004 10:26 AM

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God is never wrong.

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Even when god himself says that he made a mistake?

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I am faced with people who will quote mine anything and everything to make God look bad,

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No, mike, we are only looking at God as he is written in the Bible.There are many times in the Bible that God is good and wonderful.There are also many times that God is cruel, terrible, makes mistakes, and is in general much more human in nature, with many of the human faults and foibles we have.It is YOU who has to distort and twist what the Bible actually says about God and how the Bible describes God in order to make him what YOU require him to be; an entity which can only do good, never regrets it's actions, etc.So, it's you who quote mine, really, not us. We are just taking the Bible as a whole while you are picking, choosing and using very strained interpretations of the text to make God be what you want God to be like instead of how God actually appears.

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therefore - I will most certainly use against them, what isn't mentioned.

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...which simply results in making your arguments quite ridiculous and silly.This message has been edited by schrafinator, 11-17-2004 08:56 PM

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For I will pass through the land of Egypt this night, and will smite all the firstborn in the land of Egypt, both man and beast.

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Mike, you are smarter than this argument.

What is the difference in meaning between the following phrases?:men and beastman and beast

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HUMAN'S made the flood happen. They were not forced to be wicked -

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No, God chose a flood, which he knew would cause great suffering and fear.He could have just ended all life with a thought, but instead made people and innocent animals suffer.

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You don't want to believe in God of the bible,

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Oh? It's a simple matter of preferance for me? Well, thanks for clearing up that little confusion of my psyche for me, mike.Tell me, do you not "want" to believe the Gods of the Gita?

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you'll make him look bad by mentioning how humans came to an end BECAUSE of theor own sin.

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Can you please quote the verse in the Bible in which God tells everyone in the world that he was going to drown them unless they repented?

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If I'm wrong biblically, why does the bible say "the fruit of YOUR doings"?

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Gee, it sure looks like I'm the one telling the truth bout the Bible and you are the one tying yourself in knots.

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I'm not twisting the bible - I'm doing what I must against the crowd.

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Sometimes the crowd is right, mike.In this case, let's not forget that you are claiming that there were no children anywhere in the world before the flood.That is stupid.God wants you to be stupid?Thank goodness I'm not a Christian. I don't want to be stupid.

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I know your intentions.

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And just what are those?

Look, don't get upset at me.I didn't try to use that silly semantic game, you did.What is the difference in meaning of the following two phrases?;men and beastman and beast.Obviously, the meaning you want is for "man" to mean adult male, but then the word used would be "men" and beast.But, of course, "man and beast" means "mankind", not adult male, making it rather clear that children would have been among the ones struck down by the angel of death, by God's order.I was just pointing out that this is a semantic game that you are too smart to use.Here's a hint, mike:If your theology makes you use dumb arguments and silly illogic to maintain it, maybe your theology is what is lacking.

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You said thank goodness you're not a CHRISTian. Christians believe Christ is the person of God.
I prefer the cross to the crowd.

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If agreeing with "the cross" as opposed to "the crowd" means denying logic, reality, and good sense, then I'm glad I don't follow the cross.Casting yourself as an outsider probably makes you feel more unique or special or something.If "the cross" told you to jump off a bridge, would you? The crowd isn't jumping off bridges.

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What? By telling what the bible says about sin?

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No, by making dumb arguments which change the obvious intended, very clearly written meaning of the words of the Bible.

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That we shall be punished according to our doings?

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Please quote the Bible verse where God tells every single person on the planet that he will drown them unless they shape up and fly straight. IOW, where do all the people n the planet learn the potential consequences of their actions?

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In evry event mentioned - God said he spared the righteouss.

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But do you really believe that the babies in the wombs of women were evil? Do you believe the 6 week old infants were wicked?

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Why should I believe you and not the bible?

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You aren't following the Bible.You are making up extra explanations not found in the Bible to make God into the "always perfect and good" entity you want him to be.

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Pink atheist said the first thing he thought is "what about the babies". This is an example, that you first try and blame God - and think of possible ways to make man's sin God's instead.

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Can you please tell me which verse in the Bible describes how God let everyone in the world know that he would kill them in a flood if they did not change their ways?

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Yet in every event mentioned, it was shown in the bible that man sinned. So I think the bible agrees with me somehow Shraff - that the wicked were punished and the righteous were not.

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The babies in women's wombs were wicked?

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"There is no peace sayeth the Lord, for the wicked". "Oh if thou hadst hearkened unto my commandments - then thy peace would have been as a river" - again, all biblical - and I agree with it.

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God is expecting 3 month old babies to follow commandments?All people in the world had heard of God's commandments? Even in North America? Even in India?See, mike, you are running up against the problem of context.The people who wrote the Bible didn't know the Earth was as big, and round, as it is. They didn't know that most of the rest of the world's people even existed.They had a very narrow, limited and terribly inaccurate view of what "the whole world" meant.Taken in this context, using the mindset of a uneducated nomadic shepherd from 2000 years ago, the stories read better and god doesn't sound quite as cruel.He is still cruel, but not quite as cruel.It is more realistic to think that "everyone in the world" would know about god's commandments, because a nomadic shepherd's "entire world" is miniscule when compared to what we mean by that phrase today.