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Author Topic:   I'm trying: a stairway to heaven?
iano
Member (Idle past 1941 days)
Posts: 6165
From: Co. Wicklow, Ireland.
Joined: 07-27-2005


Message 271 of 303 (258555)
11-10-2005 2:54 PM
Reply to: Message 268 by jar
11-10-2005 2:50 PM


Re: have you given up on discussing post 203?
I said repent to self: Iano (speaking to self says) "I hate this argumentitive behaviour of mine, I'm going to try harder not to do it on future"
Or I can repent to God "Lord, I hate this behaviour of mine and I'm going to do better in the future"
Or I can repent to you "Jar, I hate this behaviour and am going to do better in future (but you'd need an electron microscope to plot the change)"

This message is a reply to:
 Message 268 by jar, posted 11-10-2005 2:50 PM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 273 by jar, posted 11-10-2005 2:59 PM iano has replied
 Message 276 by nwr, posted 11-10-2005 3:04 PM iano has not replied

iano
Member (Idle past 1941 days)
Posts: 6165
From: Co. Wicklow, Ireland.
Joined: 07-27-2005


Message 272 of 303 (258558)
11-10-2005 2:57 PM
Reply to: Message 270 by robinrohan
11-10-2005 2:54 PM


Re: Righteous vs Unrighteous
How to absorb the 40 posts left as fast as you can say "not a bad biblical rebuttal from a heathen". Just quote this verse to Ringo

This message is a reply to:
 Message 270 by robinrohan, posted 11-10-2005 2:54 PM robinrohan has not replied

jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 273 of 303 (258562)
11-10-2005 2:59 PM
Reply to: Message 271 by iano
11-10-2005 2:54 PM


Re: have you given up on discussing post 203?
Is that actually correct?
Is not the first example repenting and the other examples confession?

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 271 by iano, posted 11-10-2005 2:54 PM iano has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 292 by iano, posted 11-11-2005 1:12 PM jar has replied

robinrohan
Inactive Member


Message 274 of 303 (258563)
11-10-2005 3:00 PM


to try
What I'm wondering is if "trying to try" is equivalent to trying.

Replies to this message:
 Message 278 by iano, posted 11-10-2005 3:06 PM robinrohan has replied

iano
Member (Idle past 1941 days)
Posts: 6165
From: Co. Wicklow, Ireland.
Joined: 07-27-2005


Message 275 of 303 (258564)
11-10-2005 3:00 PM
Reply to: Message 269 by ringo
11-10-2005 2:52 PM


Re: Righteous vs Unrighteous
Ringo writes:
The ball is in the back of your goal, as anybody reading this thread can see. You've got less than forty posts to try to get it out of there.
I know Ringo, I know. On the ropes, clinging on for dear life. Only 40 posts to go before the end of round 1. Phew Think I'll entitle the next one
"If at first you don't succeed folks..."
Later dude. Dinner is a getting ready an she don't like it a waiting

This message is a reply to:
 Message 269 by ringo, posted 11-10-2005 2:52 PM ringo has not replied

nwr
Member
Posts: 6408
From: Geneva, Illinois
Joined: 08-08-2005
Member Rating: 5.1


Message 276 of 303 (258566)
11-10-2005 3:04 PM
Reply to: Message 271 by iano
11-10-2005 2:54 PM


Re: have you given up on discussing post 203?
Or I can repent to God "Lord, I hate this behaviour of mine and I'm going to do better in the future"
If I do something bad to my neighbor, then surely I should repent to that neighbor.
If I repent to God, but not to the neigbor, then my "repentance" is not real. If I repent to my neighbor, then surely God will recognize that.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 271 by iano, posted 11-10-2005 2:54 PM iano has not replied

ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 277 of 303 (258568)
11-10-2005 3:04 PM
Reply to: Message 270 by robinrohan
11-10-2005 2:54 PM


Re: Righteous vs Unrighteous
robinrohan writes:
"For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God." Romans 3:23
Who said robinrohan didn't know his Bible?
So, Paul says we are all sinners and Jesus told us to stop being sinners. We're talking before and after here. "Stop doing what you've been doing." It ties in with what jar has been saying about repentence.
How is that an impossible task?

People who think they have all the answers usually don't understand the questions.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 270 by robinrohan, posted 11-10-2005 2:54 PM robinrohan has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 279 by robinrohan, posted 11-10-2005 3:08 PM ringo has replied

iano
Member (Idle past 1941 days)
Posts: 6165
From: Co. Wicklow, Ireland.
Joined: 07-27-2005


Message 278 of 303 (258569)
11-10-2005 3:06 PM
Reply to: Message 274 by robinrohan
11-10-2005 3:00 PM


Re: to try
The prayer:
Lord I don't love you
I don't even want to love you
But I want to want to love you
...springs to mind. Infinite progression will work here
If trying then I suppose you would get points for trying to try. Its all trying at the end of the day and some start out further away than others.
What do you think as an impartial observer RR. Does trying reek of a God who has all his creation hop, hop hopping to get over the wall. "Come on little ones, just a little higher and you won't get toasted"
Ugh...

This message is a reply to:
 Message 274 by robinrohan, posted 11-10-2005 3:00 PM robinrohan has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 281 by robinrohan, posted 11-10-2005 3:13 PM iano has not replied

robinrohan
Inactive Member


Message 279 of 303 (258571)
11-10-2005 3:08 PM
Reply to: Message 277 by ringo
11-10-2005 3:04 PM


Re: Righteous vs Unrighteous
Who said robinrohan didn't know his Bible?
I got one of them concordances. Is the rule that we have to stick to the words of Jesus?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 277 by ringo, posted 11-10-2005 3:04 PM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 280 by ringo, posted 11-10-2005 3:10 PM robinrohan has not replied

ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 280 of 303 (258572)
11-10-2005 3:10 PM
Reply to: Message 279 by robinrohan
11-10-2005 3:08 PM


Re: Righteous vs Unrighteous
robinrohan writes:
Is the rule that we have to stick to the words of Jesus?
Nope. But He's high card.

People who think they have all the answers usually don't understand the questions.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 279 by robinrohan, posted 11-10-2005 3:08 PM robinrohan has not replied

robinrohan
Inactive Member


Message 281 of 303 (258575)
11-10-2005 3:13 PM
Reply to: Message 278 by iano
11-10-2005 3:06 PM


Re: to try
What do you think as an impartial observer RR.
What occurred to me was that "trying" might be rather hard to pin down. How do you know if you are really trying?
Authority figure: The problem with you is, you're just not trying.
Boy: I know, but I'm trying to try. I just can't try.
Is the boy trying?
Say you're on the job and you're doing your "best," and yet you know you could have done a little more that day if you had just tried. Are you trying?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 278 by iano, posted 11-10-2005 3:06 PM iano has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 282 by nwr, posted 11-10-2005 3:22 PM robinrohan has replied

nwr
Member
Posts: 6408
From: Geneva, Illinois
Joined: 08-08-2005
Member Rating: 5.1


Message 282 of 303 (258582)
11-10-2005 3:22 PM
Reply to: Message 281 by robinrohan
11-10-2005 3:13 PM


Re: to try
I think you've got it, robin. Trying, as jar means it, is really hard to do. But iano thinks of trying as something superficial and easy.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 281 by robinrohan, posted 11-10-2005 3:13 PM robinrohan has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 283 by robinrohan, posted 11-10-2005 3:49 PM nwr has replied

robinrohan
Inactive Member


Message 283 of 303 (258603)
11-10-2005 3:49 PM
Reply to: Message 282 by nwr
11-10-2005 3:22 PM


Re: to try
Trying, as jar means it, is really hard to do.
Keep this in mind, NWR, the next time you catch me off topic. I'm trying to try to try not to get off topic, but I can't seem to try to try.
This message has been edited by robinrohan, 11-10-2005 02:50 PM

This message is a reply to:
 Message 282 by nwr, posted 11-10-2005 3:22 PM nwr has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 284 by nwr, posted 11-10-2005 3:59 PM robinrohan has not replied

nwr
Member
Posts: 6408
From: Geneva, Illinois
Joined: 08-08-2005
Member Rating: 5.1


Message 284 of 303 (258608)
11-10-2005 3:59 PM
Reply to: Message 283 by robinrohan
11-10-2005 3:49 PM


Re: to try
I'm trying to try to try not to get off topic, but I can't seem to try to try.
I'm aware of that. I sometimes go off-topic too. It is easy to slip.
As I recall, last time I only gave you a gentle nudge, and that was enough to get you back on track. So yes, you really were trying (and I thank you for that).
Let's not pursue this any further, lest we drift off-topic here.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 283 by robinrohan, posted 11-10-2005 3:49 PM robinrohan has not replied

truthlover
Member (Idle past 4059 days)
Posts: 1548
From: Selmer, TN
Joined: 02-12-2003


Message 285 of 303 (258624)
11-10-2005 4:23 PM
Reply to: Message 253 by iano
11-10-2005 2:16 PM


Re: Righteous vs Unrighteous
Changing the words and so pull 'try' out of the hat is not exactly what I expected
I have to ask you: biblically, where do you get the idea that 'do something' means 'trying to do something'
I never got that idea, and it's good, I suppose, that you didn't expect me to pull "try" out of the hat, because I didn't. I specifically disagreed with it. See post 248.
But I ask you to deal with do.
I didn't mean to change anything. I got "practice" from memory without noticing. At one point, I had most of the NKJV NT memorized from reading it, and so its words come quickly to mind. The NKJV has "practice."
I'll be happy to use "does" righteousness, but either way, the tense is the Greek present tense, which is always used on purpose (aorist is the default if you're not trying to indicate linear, continuous, repeated or ongoing action). The person who is righteous in God's sight is the person who is doing righteousness on an ongoing basis.
That's what I've been saying all along, so I'll be happy to stick with it.
I didn't wiggle any "try" out if it. I rejected try. It's succeeding that shows you have something; fruit proves the tree, not an attempt to produce fruit.
So, that out of the way, back to the simple question I already asked, from post 244:
quote:
Are you willing to admit that only those who practice righteousness are righteous in God's sight, like 1 Jn 3:7 says?
"The cause is from God" or "the source is God" is not a rational answer to that question.
You are welcome to change the word "practice" there [NKJV] to "do" [KJV].

This message is a reply to:
 Message 253 by iano, posted 11-10-2005 2:16 PM iano has not replied

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