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Author Topic:   Here be my problem with "God"
The Joke
Inactive Member


Message 1 of 106 (65823)
11-11-2003 12:19 PM


Now, if god exist, then why do we have to be good/ See, if we have to beed good to get into heaven, then that be dictating that good things is what god wants. If that be true, how come god lets boys in hig hschool be used as sodomy victims, rp to occur, and all the goofy ass crap that be happening yo? Whos to say God doesn't like people who piss in the corner while at a strangers party when the bathroom is occupied? If god was so bent on good, then he should be riding on down here and going "Ok listen up folks, I want you all to gather in buildings that are shaped like penises and worship me"
Why don't he makes more people to worship him 24/7? If he made us, he could make worshippers to do that if he be needing it. He could get people performing riverdance for him and delivering him bowls of Cream of Wheat and Egg Nog (Egg Nog is PHAT yo!) This might be stuff people read and go That's stupid" cause you dont udnerstand me cause im from the ghetto here in London, but it's all logical.
Why god need us to rally around and support him? Why cant we know he exists? Is he ugly? Maybe god be fat and dotn want anyoen to know? Just cause he MAYBE made us doesnt mean he's this divine white beard dude who looks like he is in ZZ Top. maybe he looks more like Jared from the Subway commericials? (That be cool yo, Jared gives me free subs - true fact.[that why i mentioned it] Jared is DA MAN!)
I bench 450lbs too, yo. hella strong

Replies to this message:
 Message 10 by Lizard Breath, posted 11-22-2003 8:42 PM The Joke has not replied

  
White Robes
Inactive Member


Message 2 of 106 (68146)
11-20-2003 8:33 PM


God exists yes. God is "the boss" and ya do what he says or pay the consequences. It's not by your good works that you get into heaven. God is "bent" on good and he's got other ways of dealing with it than riding down here on a horse and dictating everything like that, it's called Hell and Death aka the consequences of sin. God doesn't need to make more people to worship him 24/7, he's got hundreds of millions of people to worship him in heaven right now. God doesn't need us to rally around him and support him, that's what his angels are for, we serve God because of who he is and how it's what he deserves and what he's done for us. You don't understand or know he exists because you haven't taken the time to get to know the God who's dieing for you to get to know him.

Replies to this message:
 Message 3 by crashfrog, posted 11-20-2003 11:19 PM White Robes has not replied
 Message 8 by Charles Munroe, posted 11-22-2003 12:42 PM White Robes has not replied

  
crashfrog
Member (Idle past 1467 days)
Posts: 19762
From: Silver Spring, MD
Joined: 03-20-2003


Message 3 of 106 (68218)
11-20-2003 11:19 PM
Reply to: Message 2 by White Robes
11-20-2003 8:33 PM


God is "the boss" and ya do what he says or pay the consequences. It's not by your good works that you get into heaven.
Are you aware that those two statements are contradictory? If bad deeds get you in to hell, then it follows that only good deeds get you into heaven - or else it's impossible to get into heaven.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2 by White Robes, posted 11-20-2003 8:33 PM White Robes has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 61 by godsmac, posted 02-16-2004 2:51 AM crashfrog has replied

  
Rand Al'Thor
Inactive Member


Message 4 of 106 (68239)
11-21-2003 1:36 AM


Hmm the God that is dying for us yet simaltanously sending us to firey doom if we don't do exactly what he says... Right

  
White Robes
Inactive Member


Message 5 of 106 (68526)
11-22-2003 10:59 AM


" Are you aware that those two statements are contradictory? If bad deeds get you in to hell, then it follows that only good deeds get you into heaven - or else it's impossible to get into heaven. "
No, because you have to take into consideration that You're born into Sin, it's the bad deeds (which are sin) plus the fact that you're born into Sin that gets you into hell. And no, you can do a million Good deeds but without Jesus Christ you will not set foot into heaven because he is the one who forgives you of your sin and makes you Clean again, a new person, set apart from the rest of those born into sin who haven't been forgiven.
[This message has been edited by White Robes, 11-22-2003]

Replies to this message:
 Message 6 by Yaro, posted 11-22-2003 11:59 AM White Robes has not replied
 Message 7 by Charles Munroe, posted 11-22-2003 12:09 PM White Robes has not replied
 Message 9 by crashfrog, posted 11-22-2003 4:15 PM White Robes has not replied

  
Yaro
Member (Idle past 6496 days)
Posts: 1797
Joined: 07-12-2003


Message 6 of 106 (68529)
11-22-2003 11:59 AM
Reply to: Message 5 by White Robes
11-22-2003 10:59 AM


So, White Robes,
What about all the indians in the americas pre-columbus? They all went to hell?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 5 by White Robes, posted 11-22-2003 10:59 AM White Robes has not replied

  
Charles Munroe
Member (Idle past 3635 days)
Posts: 40
From: Simi Valley, CA USA
Joined: 09-07-2003


Message 7 of 106 (68530)
11-22-2003 12:09 PM
Reply to: Message 5 by White Robes
11-22-2003 10:59 AM


Heaven & Hell
Organized Christian religion states that one enters heaven only by accepting Jesus Christ. I have some questions I would appreciate well thought out rational answers to:
1) What about the billions plus who in past ages and to the present have never heard of Jesus? Do they go to hell also?
2) Since "Good works" won't get me into heaven does that mean I can go to church, pray, accept Jesus and ignore any good works. After all the good works will do nothing to get me into heaven.
3) Suppose a person accepts Jesus, doesn't do a damned thing in the way of Good works, goes to heaven and has to listen to some one in hell who, for what ever reason, never accepted Jesus or never heard of him but spent his or her entire life helping their fellow humans and doing good deeds. Sounds suspeciously like good deed are for naught but ass kissing will get you into heaven.
4) What of babies and little children who die young? Do they end up in hell with the real crud of society?
5) What does hell accomplish? The evil deeds are done, the evil doer can do no more evil and punishment will accomplish absolutley nothing.
6) Hell sounds suspeciously like extorsion and heaven like bribery.
7) A human mother or father LOVES and PROTECTS their children irregardless of whether their children love them. They would never send their children into a place like hell. Why would God, who is supposed to be loving,infinitely more intelligent react in such a primative and savage manner?
Do you think that maybe heaven and hell are devices for controlling people and that the real message of Jesus Christ is about reforming not only Judism but humankind?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 5 by White Robes, posted 11-22-2003 10:59 AM White Robes has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 39 by Phat, posted 01-18-2004 4:13 PM Charles Munroe has not replied

  
Charles Munroe
Member (Idle past 3635 days)
Posts: 40
From: Simi Valley, CA USA
Joined: 09-07-2003


Message 8 of 106 (68536)
11-22-2003 12:42 PM
Reply to: Message 2 by White Robes
11-20-2003 8:33 PM


God could use an alarm clock
According to traditional interpretation of Genesis, thanks to Bishop Usher, the world came into being around 4,004 BC. Adam and Eve messed up shortly thereafter. God gets bent out of shape and evicts Adam and Eve. Serpent stays.
1,656 years later, God having failed to sterilize Adam or Eve, evil has flourished to the point that God decides action needs to be taken and God takes drastic action and drowns untold multitudes including babies.
1,100 years later God finally wakes up to the fact that humanity needs some instructions on how to conduct itself; like maybe that should have been done 2,750 years ago. So God gives humans the 10 commandments. Well to the Isrealis at least who promoptly do nothing to spread the word for the nest 1,100 years.
Finally 1,100 years later God realizes that the 10 aren't doing the trick. They leave out rape, slavery, segregation, hatred, compassion, love, anti-war and many other things. So God sends his son down to humans. Son proves to have far more on the ball than the old man. Rewrites 10 commandments with one sentence "Do unto others as you would have them do unto you."
Zealot - Don't interpret this as God Bashing; it is pointing out text that implies God has no more intelligence than the village idiot and thus the text is sorely in need of reinterpretation or needs to be thrown out altogether.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2 by White Robes, posted 11-20-2003 8:33 PM White Robes has not replied

  
crashfrog
Member (Idle past 1467 days)
Posts: 19762
From: Silver Spring, MD
Joined: 03-20-2003


Message 9 of 106 (68584)
11-22-2003 4:15 PM
Reply to: Message 5 by White Robes
11-22-2003 10:59 AM


No, because you have to take into consideration that You're born into Sin
Says who?
And no, you can do a million Good deeds but without Jesus Christ you will not set foot into heaven because he is the one who forgives you of your sin and makes you Clean again, a new person, set apart from the rest of those born into sin who haven't been forgiven.
So I have to do something? (ala come to Jesus, etc.) So it's my deeds that get me into heaven?
Seriously? A million good deeds won't counteract one bad thing that it wasn't me who did anyway? What kind of moral calculus is God using? None that I'm familiar with.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 5 by White Robes, posted 11-22-2003 10:59 AM White Robes has not replied

  
Lizard Breath
Member (Idle past 6696 days)
Posts: 376
Joined: 10-19-2003


Message 10 of 106 (68656)
11-22-2003 8:42 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by The Joke
11-11-2003 12:19 PM


So you're from England huh,
If you want someone to believe that you are from the ghetto then you should be consistant with your slang typing instead of constantly switching from proper grammer to some psudeo slang. You dig, G. You either shoot the gift or you don't. Nice try though. Best be takin' yo quack down to the tenderonies cause you gettin' cracked on mas domino here Brudda "B".
It also doesn't jive that you have questions about the policies of God when you obviously know enough Christian theology to keyhole your questions to an evangelical message delivery. The crux of your message is about sexual abuse and the male anatomy from what I can tell so why don't you refrase the question.
See I can also bench 450, actually I rep with a little more than that but I don't bring it up in this forum because I don't think it makes a ratz. You draw highlight to it yet you allude to boys being raped in school and you seem angry about it. Dudes like me don't get raped or even screwed with so did you actually have a bad kinda way in school and it's got you bitter and confused?
If you restate your question but ask it honestly and shelve the pseudo-macho in your face ghettto gig, you'll find some very capable people in this arena on both sides of the isle who will be glad to answer it.
[This message has been edited by Lizard Breath, 11-22-2003]

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by The Joke, posted 11-11-2003 12:19 PM The Joke has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 12 by joshua221, posted 11-22-2003 11:09 PM Lizard Breath has not replied

  
White Robes
Inactive Member


Message 11 of 106 (68694)
11-22-2003 10:55 PM


Hey, Charles Munroe - aka guy that has all the questions above - i'm not ignoring them. I can answer all your questions but not now cause I just got off work and I gotta jet to bed cause it's late.
hopefully tomorrow I can give you some well thought out answers...
peace out
oh, and same with you road frog - i got your answers on the way too...peace
g'nite
[This message has been edited by White Robes, 11-22-2003]

  
joshua221 
Inactive Member


Message 12 of 106 (68697)
11-22-2003 11:09 PM
Reply to: Message 10 by Lizard Breath
11-22-2003 8:42 PM


Re: So you're from England huh,
LOL, yeah the slang text is annoying to read.
------------------
Bible
Search Results
"love" was found 865 times in 751 verses.
Thats a Whole Lotta Love

This message is a reply to:
 Message 10 by Lizard Breath, posted 11-22-2003 8:42 PM Lizard Breath has not replied

  
White Robes
Inactive Member


Message 13 of 106 (68882)
11-23-2003 10:58 PM


So RAND AL'THOR, in reply to your comment, - it makes perfect sense...God loved us so much that instead of destroying the creation that rebells against him that he sent his own Son for three purposes, one of which was to take our place on that cross taking out punishment for our sins. If you choose to still reject God/Jesus Christ after this than surely you will be sent to hell according to the word of Jesus Christ.
Why does that seem so obsurd to you! (not a question, but a statement for you to think about).
[This message has been edited by White Robes, 11-23-2003]

Replies to this message:
 Message 14 by sidelined, posted 11-23-2003 11:27 PM White Robes has not replied

  
sidelined
Member (Idle past 5908 days)
Posts: 3435
From: Edmonton Alberta Canada
Joined: 08-30-2003


Message 14 of 106 (68886)
11-23-2003 11:27 PM
Reply to: Message 13 by White Robes
11-23-2003 10:58 PM


White Robes
Please explain to me how Jesus dying on the cross is supposed to take our punishment for us unless he spends an equivalent amount of time in hell himself. I mean it is one thing to die on a cross,horrible though must be, it is hardly more than one day of pain and then He is off to heaven.So that is all He had to suffer to balance the scales for all the sins of the people that believe in him? Pardon my being blunt but human beings have suffered greater pain than that just in the living out of their lives.
Now if He were to spend an equivalent amount of time in hell to that which he spares the believers of.ten some of the spiritual stuff would make sense as it could be a test by God to see if we would be willing to allow another to take our punishment for us.If we chose not to allow Christ to take our place that would strike me as a far greater testimony to the character of a person.Those who would have him take their place would be rejected since they obviously are not mature enough to understand that they should be responsible for their own actions and take their punishment.
Anyway it is just a thought for the believers out there to contemplate.
------------------
"Physics is like sex. Sure, it may give some practical results, but that's not why we do it."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 13 by White Robes, posted 11-23-2003 10:58 PM White Robes has not replied

  
White Robes
Inactive Member


Message 15 of 106 (69071)
11-24-2003 8:05 PM


The numbers to my response correspond to the numbers in your questions Charles Munroe.
1. Your first question about all the people who havent heard even the name of Jesus who have died in the present and the past, I cannot present you with a full-fledged solid statement on this because I dont know about it, but I do know that I serve a just God who is consistent in all he does not changing as years go on.
2. No, good works will not get you into heaven. A refusal of good works after accepting Jesus Christ is like helping the opposing side of another team purposely, continually. Your heart is no longer in line with Gods and is as if you have rejected him because a refusal of good works would be in direct opposition to the path of Jesus. God also says he searches the thoughts and intentions of every person. The situation you present me with in this question I find to be highly unlikely, and pretty unrealistic.
3. If you view the situation you have come up with in a different way you will understand the answer. You must understand the seriousness of rejecting Jesus and all that he has to offer, and before that you must gain an understanding of who Jesus Christ really is.
Think of a King in all his Glory and Honor and dignity etcK He reaches out to the lowest of the lowest and gives you everything he has but his honor, throne, glory, dignity(he himself),and he does this to save you from some crazy horrible thing. After all that he has done you say, naa, no thanks, Ill go my own way and just do good things for other people.
The man who rejects this is nothing but a fool stubborn at heart, closed minded not willing to be moved from his own comfort shoving the greatest insult in the face of the one who sacrificed so much for his sake.
Just as the man who rejected the kings offer is a fool with a stubborn heart who is close minded so is that man who rejects Christ and the abundance of sacrifice he has made in order to save his creation from destruction.
The example of the King reaching out in sacrifice for one of his people, this does not even compare to Christ doing what he has done for our sake because the King cannot compare to any measure of Jesus Christ, thus the value of the Sacrifice is so huge and unfathomable it boggles the mind that God would permit his Son to die for the rescue of a sinful group of nations who are against him. So great is the love of the Lord Jesus Christ that it makes a mothers love for her child look like hate. So Charles, I leave you with the decision after viewing the situation through this lens, to come to an answer of your own question.
4. Ah, finally a no brainer (for me) to answer the little babies who die will go to heaven according to the bible because they have not the ability to discern between right and wrong.
5. The purpose of Hell lays behind the theme of Justice: the upholding of what is fair and due according to set standards of God. Hell is no rehabilitation center where people who sin go in there for a time and are all better when they come out, and its not a means of social security where they are put to rid Gods people of evil dangerous acts, and its not a place where people who sin are put for the purpose of revenge. Hell is a place where you have earned your way there, when you are sent to hell its because you have done something or not done something that enables hell to be a fair treatment for your actions thus upholding the Justice system God has put in place. You may think Gods justice system stinks and is unfair, if so its due to a lack of understanding of Sin and God himself. So you ask me what does hell accomplish V Hell accomplishes nothing, but through it God accomplishes justice.
6. With a little further research of Gods character and purpose behind heaven and hell youll see hell is not extortion and heaven not bribery.
7. I like your last question. I dont know where you get the idea that God would send his children to hell. The only way youre a child of God is if youve accepted Jesus Christ into your heart otherwise you are a child of the devil. God obviously isnt going to send his children to hell.
And to the last thing you said V no I dont think that maybe heaven and hell are devices for controlling people, and the real message is certainly not about reforming Judaism and humankind. Although part of Gods purpose is to eliminate sin from the entire world he has other means of doing it which you may have the unpleasant opportunity of witnessing in your lifetime. Hopefully that wont be the case.
Talking about the Christian-----> Ephesians 2:8-10 8For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith--and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God-- 9not by works, so that no one can boast. 10For we are God's workmanship, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do.

Replies to this message:
 Message 16 by Rand Al'Thor, posted 11-24-2003 8:59 PM White Robes has not replied
 Message 44 by Charles Munroe, posted 01-19-2004 3:32 PM White Robes has not replied

  
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